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The main thing about Phenylacetone meth is that there's so much of it

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Re: The main thing about Phenylacetone meth is that there's so much of it

#261

Post by forgotmyoldname »

version_five wrote: post #245
m0zg wrote: post #222

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> with the exception of meth and opiates That's like saying "I did a lot of drugs, except the ones that _really_ fuck you up". 100K people will die in the US this year from hard drug overdoses. 93K died last year. This also ignores the fact that several times the number are circling down the societal shitter due to their addiction. That's not to disagree that e.g. MJ is less dangerous than alcohol when consumed in mo…

> heroin and meth should be legal, and freely available, and they will read your comment with that bias in mind. I'd much rather have the old DARE bullshit than allow this to happen. Why? Do you think somehow things would be worse with legal, controlled drugs?

What should happen when someone violates the legal protocols in which they're controlled?

Meth is already legal, in actuality. It's just controlled in production and distribution and only available by prescription. There are millions in America taking legal meth right now.

Re: The main thing about Phenylacetone meth is that there's so much of it

#262

Post by AlotOfReading »

chucksta wrote: post #236
ehnto wrote: post #225

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Meth is definitely one of the drugs that becomes a public nuisance, since people do become erratic and violent while using. Meth users are the only people that worry me when walking through our city since it can make people who are already unstable become unpredictably violent. I wonder if other drugs were legal would people still do meth?

Meth was legal until the 70s, society functioned. The current problem is another side effect of the war on drugs https://www.history.com/topics/crime/history-of-meth

According to period newspapers, it very much was a problem almost immediately after public introduction in the late 40s and early 50s. Here's an example from Australia, which banned it by 1955:

https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/71874426?searchTe...

Re: The main thing about Phenylacetone meth is that there's so much of it

#263

Post by jkhdigital »

cwkoss wrote: post #153
throwaway2331 wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Adding on: the problem with vyvanse is that there's no way to mess around with the dosage to get it "just right." It's like a more strict version of extended release (EX) and timed release formulations (there's a difference!). Vyvanse is metabolized to d-amphetamine in your blood cells (the specific mechanism escapes me right now), unlike the regular non-prodrug versions which get "metabolized" first in your stomach…

> Vyvanse is metabolized to d-amphetamine in your blood cells Do you have any more information about this? Can't find it on google - would be very interesting if its true but I'm a bit skeptical - I've never heard about blood cells being a primary site of drug metabolism. A search turned up: > "Lisdexamfetamine dimesylate is converted to dextoamphetamine and L- lysine, which is believed to occur by first-pass intesti…

~30 year old article on how red blood cells metabolize many classes of drugs: https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/pdf/10.1002/bod.25100904...

Basically, RBCs have lots of enzyme systems that serve (in part) to protect the important parts (e.g. haemoglobin) from oxidation. Put a bunch of lisdexamfetamine in the blood, and the RBCs will gradually hydrolyze it to cleave off the l-lysine and leave d-amph.

Re: The main thing about Phenylacetone meth is that there's so much of it

#264

Post by rsj_hn »

s5300 wrote: post #256
howlin wrote: post #211

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Drugs destroy your ability to make good decisions. They are essentially hot wiring the brain's reward circuits which directly feed back into the brain's decision making processes. Most obviously, it's almost never the case that addicts consciously choose to become addicted.

Pretty sure that Erdos said that Dexedrine/variants of amphetamine made him want to do math. Is wanting to do math a not good decision? Potentially, I guess.

If you are Erdos, it is a good decision.

Re: The main thing about Phenylacetone meth is that there's so much of it

#265

Post by throwaway2331 »

stainforth wrote: post #255
throwaway2331 wrote: post #248

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Seems to act differently depending on route of administration. If you've ever had weed, it's like edibles (injecting) vs. smoking (nasal). Intranasal is more cerebral, "in your head" type of effects. Subq is more bodily, "all around your body" type of effects. If you're looking at it as a nootropic, I would recommend the spray. It feels similar to prozac and wellbutrin, if they weren't so terrible. If you're looking…

I guess I'm a little confused by your answer - are peptides nootropics or sensation-type experiences? I guess I perceive nootropics as like "become smarter" or "having better recall" but this answer makes it seem like a recreational time bound physical experience? I also could see how the mental and physical have blurred boundaries.

I'm nodding off right now, so my verbal fluency is off. I think I was trying to make an analogy on how their effects differ, not on how their effects are.

For example, with eating weed, you get bodily sensations, and so its effects are more on your body, i.e. physical; while with smoking weed, the "sensations" are more in your head, and mental.

Likewise, with injecting NASA, the effects seem to be spread around your body and more "physical"; while administering NASA intranasaly, the effects are more mental, and focused "in your head."

The route of administration changes the expression of the drug on your body and mind. Dependent on that, it can either be a nootropic (nasal route) or akin to a mild and sensationless (compared to painkillers like opiates) muscle relaxant (subcutaneous).

It's difficult to explain, because the effects are so mild and without the normal "Oh, I'm on drugs. I can feel it" sensations, that you can only see them in hindsight (in my case, by perusing old journal entries).

Re: The main thing about Phenylacetone meth is that there's so much of it

#266

Post by markdown »

xyzzyz wrote: post #258
pksebben wrote: post #238

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> That’s what happened in Portugal, after drug decriminalization — drug consumption there went up significantly (with exception of heroin, which went down, but it also went down in other European countries at the same time which did not decriminalize it). Full on legalization will increase consumption even higher. ...Do you have sources on this? My awareness of Portugal's situation is basically the opposite of that,…

Your own first link discusses this: > In the first five years after drug policy reform, use of illegal drugs rose slightly among the general population but fell again in the following five years. I remember looking at the actual figures, and what happened was that use of heroin in Portugal went down significantly, and use of all other drugs went up significantly, giving slight rise in total drug use on net. > Use amo…

If you can't trust the data, just ask whether citizens are happy with the change. Considering that Portugal hasn't rolled back their decriminalisation, I'd say that either things have pretty much improved, or at least stayed the same.

Re: The main thing about Phenylacetone meth is that there's so much of it

#267

Post by markdown »

wirrbel wrote: post #106
tyingq wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree that the gin->mean, whisky->emotional, etc, is all bunk. But I'm still convinced there's a link between alcohol and violence. If nothing else, the lowered cognitive function and reduced inhibition would mean more opportunity to be angry, and less self control. Like, a drunk person might misinterpret someone accidentally bumping into them as aggression. And would be less likely to suppress the urge to respond…

Reduced inhibition does not support the thesis of increased agression, unless you define aggression to refer to "aggression shown". But I'd overall turn the 'cultural' aspect a little further even. I think I have observed a couple of times people to consume alcohol in order to be able to transgress cultural norms because the cultural norms themselves are 'parametrised' for the sober-drunk states. I.e. get into a figh…

If you have to fake being sorry about everything, eventually that pent up frustration has to come out :P

Re: The main thing about Phenylacetone meth is that there's so much of it

#268

Post by cwkoss »

jkhdigital wrote: post #263
cwkoss wrote: post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Vyvanse is metabolized to d-amphetamine in your blood cells Do you have any more information about this? Can't find it on google - would be very interesting if its true but I'm a bit skeptical - I've never heard about blood cells being a primary site of drug metabolism. A search turned up: > "Lisdexamfetamine dimesylate is converted to dextoamphetamine and L- lysine, which is believed to occur by first-pass intesti…

~30 year old article on how red blood cells metabolize many classes of drugs: https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/pdf/10.1002/bod.25100904... Basically, RBCs have lots of enzyme systems that serve (in part) to protect the important parts (e.g. haemoglobin) from oxidation. Put a bunch of lisdexamfetamine in the blood, and the RBCs will gradually hydrolyze it to cleave off the l-lysine and leave d-amph.

Very interesting, thanks!

Re: The main thing about Phenylacetone meth is that there's so much of it

#270

Post by alexose »

xyzzyz wrote: post #258
pksebben wrote: post #238

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> That’s what happened in Portugal, after drug decriminalization — drug consumption there went up significantly (with exception of heroin, which went down, but it also went down in other European countries at the same time which did not decriminalize it). Full on legalization will increase consumption even higher. ...Do you have sources on this? My awareness of Portugal's situation is basically the opposite of that,…

Your own first link discusses this: > In the first five years after drug policy reform, use of illegal drugs rose slightly among the general population but fell again in the following five years. I remember looking at the actual figures, and what happened was that use of heroin in Portugal went down significantly, and use of all other drugs went up significantly, giving slight rise in total drug use on net. > Use amo…

Some of what you're referring to can be found here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drug_policy_of_Portugal#Observ...

I'm not sure it's all that cut-and-dry. The story seems to be a general increase in the consumption statistics, but a decrease in criminal statistics. Maybe not a silver bullet for ending drug abuse, but a net benefit for Portugese society.

Alas, I don't live in Portugal... maybe someone who does can chime in?

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