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Tech compensation in 2021

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261–270 of 631 posts

Re: Tech compensation in 2021

#261
post #152
post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The healthcare safety net is a very big one, and a big disincentive to risk-taking in the U.S.

Only for lower income earners. A great health plan is $1k-1.5k/mo, which is crushing if your savings or excess capital are in the 5 digits or less. If you’re financially independent or wealthy enough to be (independently) doing a startup or taking on a business venture, it’s a rounding error in the books.

Correct. That's why SV startups are billionaire's playgound.

And billionaires are much more scarce outside of US (and those who exist have better chances investing in other fields).

That's why SV salaries for developers are so crazy.

Re: Tech compensation in 2021

#262
post #210

20 years experience, two books under my belt, and lead architect (with a CTO title) on several good sized projects and most I have ever gotten in $175k... every time I see an article like this, I think I am doing something "very wrong" I live about 40 miles outside of Boston. Edit: Looking at levels.fyi for Boston that actually puts me above the median[1]. Why the heck is Boston so low compared to other markets? Edit…

The best thing I did for my career was leave Boston for an entry level FANG job on the West Coast 10 years ago. I currently make more than 10x what I was making in Boston. But it has been a grind no doubt. And probably some luck.

I had the chance to do that in 2009 and my wife (then fiancé) and I decided to stay close to family. I often wonder if that was a mistake...

Re: Tech compensation in 2021

#263
post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My informal poll last year of my friends suggest a 50-60% drop rate. I asked about 30 friends who are still coding for work. Almost 20 of them said they would not code anymore if they can find equivalent salary.

Helpful anecdote, thank you. It sounds like you found the answer to my question to be, "most of them"!

The problem is that they can’t find jobs as IC to make $200-250K a year. Unless they go to management, but that’s another career track they need to learn and move to. I think software engineering is one of the highest paid job as IC other than maybe doctors.

Re: Tech compensation in 2021

#264
post #96
post #41

I'm not sure if its good to get in now while the market is hot or wait for January when it'll really take off.

What's happening in January that would make things take off?

Usually companies get a new budget/headcount allocation. I doubt it will be relevant to FAANG as much as larger companies that don't have as advanced of a pipeline, but for the non FAANG companies winter is the worst time to find a job.

Re: Tech compensation in 2021

#266
post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Taxes are higher in Europe, which disincentivizes risk taking and ambitious individuals. This seems backwards to me. A society with higher taxes typically has better social safety nets, better infrastructure, less corruption, etc. Higher-tax societies incentivize risk-taking, not the other way around, especially for "ambitious individuals". When there is more structure and support around, more people are able to ta…

In the US everything is pretty broken anyway - so go right ahead and change stuff, you might even fix something!! Whereas in Europe everything pretty much works as it should, so why rock the boat??

If things are working so well in Europe, why hasn't most of Europe seen any economic growth in two or three decades? That sure sounds like it's severely broken to me.

The GDP of Germany and France are both below where they were in 1995 inflation adjusted (and that was true even before Covid hit). Britain's economy is where it was in 1998. Italy is far below where it was 30 years ago ($2.1t today; $1.32t in 1992, which is $2.58t inflation adjusted). Spain is where it was in 1992. Russia's economy hasn't expanded in 13 years; the Netherlands is in the same boat as Russia, no expansion since 2007-2008. Belgium's economy hasn't moved since 1995. Sweden's economy has grown by about 10% in nearly 30 years (not per year, total; $284b in 1992, which is $564b inflation adjusted; their present GDP is $625b). Austria has similarly seen economic stagnation for nearly a generation. Finland was at $141b in 1990 ($303b adjusted), they're at $300b now. And so on.

If Europe weren't disastrously broken, they wouldn't be suffering such intense and widespread economic stagnation. How long can that stagnation continue before something very bad happens (eg the social safety nets start to melt, as costs climb with demographic aging and there's no economic growth to offset it; growth doesn't get easier as the worker demographics erode)?

While Europe has been asleep for 30 years, China went and became a superpower with an economy larger than the whole of the EU, starting from $426b circa 1992.

Re: Tech compensation in 2021

#267
post #195

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It was data. The "I must be doing something wrong" was tongue in cheek. The specific data point was that I am not seeing any salaries anywhere near that. And Salary.com actually backs me up. Just the fact "grind Leet Code" is a recommendation to someone who's most recent job title was CTO and has written two books may be a sign these interviews are broken. But point taken, I'm sure if I studied specifically for inter…

> My point was actually that the article and ones like this seem well research but don't match the reality Isn't it more that they match the reality, but the reality only for a relatively small section of a bimodal (or more) distribution?

I have no data to back that up but I think you may be right. We always show salary as a normal distribution but maybe it is bimodal.

Re: Tech compensation in 2021

#268
post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why are these numbers so massively different across the world? Do European companies generate that much less revenue? Or are labor unions in Europe just that much less effective at bargaining? Or is productivity that much lower in Europe? (I'm not sold on any of these)

It's all of that. European tech companies are smaller than US tech companies, have lower gross revenue per employee, make less profit per employee. Taxes are higher in Europe, which disincentivizes risk taking and ambitious individuals. Labor productivity is also lower in Europe. Finally, Europe still has a culture where software engineers, cloud architects/products/managers/etc. are viewed as code monkeys and the pe…

> Taxes are higher in Europe, which disincentivizes risk taking and ambitious individuals.

The implication is unproven.

Furthermore, most FAANGs dodge most taxes and have offices everywhere including in Europe, making your point moot.

> Labor productivity is also lower in Europe.

That has to do with US geopolitical influence. (and army).

> Finally, Europe still has a culture where software engineers, cloud architects/products/managers/etc. are viewed as code monkeys and the people who really matter in a corporation are the finance people and upper level executives.

That depends on the company. Again, there are european companies in US and US companies in EU... and yet the salaries are in no way aligned.

> Europe also suffers from a brain drain to the US (and Canada to a smaller proportion). Many of Europe's best and brightest software engineers have already emigrated to the US, leaving behind the less productive ones.

Analysis on most technical or important FOSS projects prove otherwise, with EU having the brightest.

Re: Tech compensation in 2021

#269

20 years experience, two books under my belt, and lead architect (with a CTO title) on several good sized projects and most I have ever gotten in $175k... every time I see an article like this, I think I am doing something "very wrong" I live about 40 miles outside of Boston. Edit: Looking at levels.fyi for Boston that actually puts me above the median[1]. Why the heck is Boston so low compared to other markets? Edit…

The money is out there and $175K/yr is nowhere near the top of the market for your experience in the Boston area. That’s not to say you’re doing something wrong if you’re optimizing for the many things other than money that are worthwhile.

Not near the top, no, but according to the numbers it is median. I'm sure there are larger salaries out there but this article makes it sound like it is normal. Which in a roundabout way was my point.

Re: Tech compensation in 2021

#270
post #120
post #15

Man, every time I think I’ve finally caught up to the market rate, I find out I’m behind again I’m a senior FAANG coder making 350k TC, and it looks like I should be able to net 400-600k at this level if I go to Apple or Google. Hoo boy, looks like it’s leetcode time again…

350k TC sounds not bad to me if you're E5 at Facebook or L6 at Amazon. It goes up another 150-200k at the next level (E6/L6 at Facebook/Google, L7 at Amazon, or ICT5 at Apple).

One reason discussing those numbers is hard is the variable compensation section: RSUs.

An E4/L4 (the level right below senior) easily makes 400k right now depending on which company they joined. Their typical offer was 160k base and let's day 82k RSU (325k over 4y).

With the usual (~15% of base) bonus, that's 160 * 1.15+82=266.

But now let's assume they joined 2 years ago, so they got refresher of stocks that are roughly 20k per year extra (80k vesting over 4y), 266+20+20=306k.

Here's the catch though, the 82k/y from the in-hire grant are now worth 160k/y: it's {stock price today} * 1/4 * 325k / {stock price at join date} , and look at FB, GOOG, AMZN etc trajectories.

Same for the refresher, the oldest one is probably worth around 40k/y, and most recent one probably worth 30k/y,

So this year exact TC could be (bumping base with 2 usual raises to 170): 170 * 1.15+160+40+30 = 425k.

That's ignoring extra (~10% of base) for on-call compensation.

That E4 doesn't need promo to E5. The math can be repeated for E3 or E5, the higher the stock number was, the higher the effect.

That's the effect of stock compensation and alignment of employee compensation with company performance. Of course if those share prices go down, so does the TC. There's a company in FAANG known for their frugality famous for not offering refresh "because the stock price is doing so well", but even without the refresher, someone's initial stock award from 2-3 years ago is worth a lot more today.

Some companies are starting bad trend these days due to them offering only 1 year vesting stock awards, instead of typical 4 years (smaller on-hire awards but bigger refresh), where an employee cannot benefit from the compounding effect of stock growth anymore. The employee can "hodl" their vested shares, but the vested shares are usually less, since ~1/3 is removed to pay for the tax the vesting represented.

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