Live data from Hacker News

Tab Unloading in Firefox 93

hacks.mozilla.org

261–270 of 283 posts

Re: Tab Unloading in Firefox 93

#261

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The best solution I've got right now relies on these FF extensions: Window Titler to have a topic name for each window Multi-Account Containers to have an account for each window Temporary Containers when I don't want to use a specific account for a tab Total Suspender for shutting down all the obnoxious JS that runs in background tabs In addition, I pin a large # of base sites. This is all working fairly well, but w…

have a look at sideberry

Thanks! That does look like a good solution for moving a tab to a specific window. Serious bummer that it Sidebery doesn't include a Window selector. It appears to want to use panels, but panels can't be named. Turning off the horizontal tab bar in FF is also a hack rather than a simple setting.

(edit) UG. The only way to create a new tab with Sidebery is to use a keyboard shortcut - this makes using Multi Account Containers a serious PITA as you can't just open a tab directly into a container. so frustrating!

Re: Tab Unloading in Firefox 93

#262
post #150
post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hm I'm going to see if there's a setting to override a site's choice of that header.

I found no setting. Im using an addon "ModHeader" to set the response header (for all websites) "Expires" to a date far in the future. It worked in the past, but doesn't work at the moment. Have to debug it.

Wouldn't you need to modify Cache-Control?

>>If there is a Cache-Control header with the max-age or s-maxage directive in the response, the Expires header is ignored.

https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/HTTP/Headers/Ex...

Edit: Also I'm not sure that is the relevant one? Reddit sets Cache-Control to "private, max-age=3600 [seconds]", but it definitely reloads the content if I back up in less than an hour.

Re: Tab Unloading in Firefox 93

#263

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can never understand people that have more than 10 tabs open :P When I reach that number I start closing. Seems to me just a waste of space and the whole tab bar is useless and messy (yes, I know about tab extensions). People should really get back to bookmarks, thats what they are for. Besides my usual bookmark folders, I have folders to hold temporary bookmarks (ToRead, ResearchSupport, etc...). These I know I wi…

While I can understand that point of view, Microsoft did studies and found that people learn static UI elements better than dynamic ones that shuffle around. How ironic then that they remade everything with dynamic ribbons, then re-remade everything with static ribbons, going back to their studies from the 90's. Sometimes you just have to change for the sake of change, I suppose... I would use bookmarks extensively,…

Ok, so you basically now have multiple windows to hold N tabs each. Now you need to manage windows AND tabs :D

We agree on the fact that bookmark management hasn't kept up with the times. I think bookmarks need to be re-invented for the modern era, no one uses them anymore.

But it also boils down to how you manage your own work. If I open a webpage, my workflow has only this options

- read it now

- bookmark for reference (long-term)

- send to pocket(read later - ereader usually)

- keep it open for a little while for reference (max 24hrs)

So I clean up the house quite regularly :)

Whenever I need to open something (like developer docs), i just Ctrl+L begin typing the title and autocomplete does the rest. Takes me a second and no clutter in my windows :)

Re: Tab Unloading in Firefox 93

#264
Web browsers have been trying to imitate operating systems for far too long now. We need to get away with this current model of using a document rendering language such as HTML/CSS and a terrible language such as JavaScript to build applications that feel slower and less responsive than the slowest Windows 3.1-era applications.

Re: Tab Unloading in Firefox 93

#265
post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Bookmarking systems are completely outdated, but I'm not sure what they should be replaced with. What would help you in this case so you didn't have to worry about losing the tabs if you closed them?

How can they be outdated? I have a bookmark folder at work related to some internal systems that I need to access to do a specific job. Being able to open a bunch of specific URLs at once and then have access to what I need right away is really, really nice and I haven't found any other way to get close. The same with youtube videos (I like to run hour long videos that create a soundscapes in the background), it is s…

Bookmarks work, but I find them cumbersome. The outdated part for me is having to put them into folders manually, which doesn't have the best interfaces for this. I think that's why so many people load so many tabs at once, if you close the window getting them back is difficult unless you want to hand-sort hundreds of tabs in some cases.

I'd like to see them stored in a database where you can get the data out by running filters. Those filters should be able to search meta data about currently opened tabs, browser history, saved tabs or sets of tabs, and some data from the web pages themselves. It should be simple to search all my currently opened tabs for a list of terms (like sql, select, from, where, etc) and have them be moved from my current window to a new window. I should be able to save these as a set of tabs labeled "sql". If that set already exists, it should combine them, throwing out duplicates. Ideally, web browsers should have the ability to save keywords from pages you have visited in your own little web data store. If I ran across a reference to a particular subject in the past few days, I should be able to search my history and my store of keywords for pages that mention that subject, and load them all into a new window that can be saved as a set of tabs. I should be able to search for web pages in a set of sets of tabs that have been modified in the last hour. Or open all images I've seen on webpages in the last couple of days or that have a keyword in the image name.

Manually sorting bookmarks does work, but I'd like to see something a lot more robust. I can, for example, bring up the history sidebar and see if I can figure out which site I was on that mentioned a particular game or physics term or whatever, but it should be a lot easier to do these things. In Firefox I can search page titles for a specific page, but it won't search through the page contents.

On a related note, it seems to me that all browsers should be able to act as web spiders so that every page you come across through daily operation goes into your own search terms database and that searches should start there before going to one of the search providers. Maybe have them spider links on each page a level or two down so you can find related items easier even if you didn't actually go to the page in question. You would also be able to search the parts of walled gardens you've visited lately, which normal web search won't see.

Anyway, I'm just spit-balling here, but it seems like there is a lot of room for innovation in how we select, save, group, and access web pages.

Re: Tab Unloading in Firefox 93

#266

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yet another instance of SPAs pointlessly reinventing problems we solved decades ago.

Can you seriously not think of a single use case for SPAs?

There are a few. But they're good for a vastly smaller range of use cases than they're applied to.

You're writing Google Docs? Good for you, you can use an SPA. You're writing a social networking site? That should be a regular HTML page, with a sprinkling of JS. Blog? HTML page. Issue tracker? HTML page.

Every site I've used that's been plain HTML and CSS, with maybe minor supplements in Javascript, is much nicer to use than any SPA. People claim they load faster, but I've never experienced that in practice - a plain HTML page loads in milliseconds, but downloading a giant gzip of Javascript and waiting for it to make a zillion API calls takes seconds.

GMail's HTML-only interface fully loads and renders in ~630ms for me. The SPA version takes 11.69 seconds.

lite.cnn.com loads in 287ms. CNN.com takes 4.25 seconds.

thin.npr.org loads in 112ms. NPR.org takes 1.47 seconds.

Need I go on? Even for the lightest one, NPR, if you assume loading an article on the SPA version is instantaneous, you'd need to load 14 articles to make up for the slowness of the initial SPA load. The others are all much worse. And this is with an adblocker enabled - this will only get worse with one disabled.

Using SPAs when they aren't strictly necessary is a great way to shoot your site's performance, usability, and accessibility in the foot. You can fix the usability and accessibility problems, but you need to devote substantial engineering resources to doing so, and those are free if you just use the damn plain HTML.

Re: Tab Unloading in Firefox 93

#267
Tabs which get unloaded automatically mean that, when you switch to them, you get a long delay before you can view the tab again, and worse: it makes a new HTTP request, so if you were viewing a Confluence page or something, you will be tracked for reading the page again. So it's not a feature I've ever liked, but I like that Firefox will only unload a tab if it thinks it will crash due to low memory situations because that has never been an issue for me before. It's the main reason I like to use Firefox, Chromium based browsers are waaay too aggressive with this in my experience.

Re: Tab Unloading in Firefox 93

#269

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you seriously not think of a single use case for SPAs?

There are a few. But they're good for a vastly smaller range of use cases than they're applied to. You're writing Google Docs? Good for you, you can use an SPA. You're writing a social networking site? That should be a regular HTML page, with a sprinkling of JS. Blog? HTML page. Issue tracker? HTML page. Every site I've used that's been plain HTML and CSS, with maybe minor supplements in Javascript, is much nicer to…

To me a SPA is fine and usually preferable for anything I keep open for long periods of time. Sure, Gmail takes 10+ seconds to load. But I only load it once every few days at most because it stays open in my browser.

Re: Tab Unloading in Firefox 93

#270

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Turning off Javascript won't suddenly make 900+ tabs easy to manage. I'm fine with searching. I want to have searchable fulltext in those 900+ tabs. Just for a back of the napkin calculation, I took the plain text from this comments page and saved it, and it came to 52kb. My PC has 64Gb RAM. So even without any form of compression or indexing, I should be able to hold searchable fulltext of over a million tabs in RA…

Again, I'm not sure what you're arguing about. I just said "the UX here is due for a lot of innovation." And you replied "I want to have searchable fulltext in those 900+ tabs." Where is the conflict? Yes, you could build a really interesting tab/bookmarking system in a browser that blurred the lines between tabs and bookmarks and archival. You could do really interesting things with browser history, you could do rea…

I wouldn't say I was arguing, just ranting about my desires like most people here. And "again" implies that I've replied to you before, but that was my first reply to your comment. Perhaps you were confusing me with hsbauauvhabzb.

I even quoted the part of your comment that I was replying to.

Post reply on HN