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Pumps run dry at gas stations in Britain

reuters.com

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Re: Pumps run dry at gas stations in Britain

#261

Post by fsslrisrchr »

whatever1 wrote: post #225
chrononaut wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> ..as I think most people are just filling up to the top instead of half way.. Perhaps I am missing something here, but are you referring to vehicles in this context? Is it not common to always fill your tank to the top?

Tell me you are an American without telling me you are an American. Jokes apart, in Europe the gasoline is so expensive that you need ~80€ to fill up a small car. For an SUV can be close to 100€. So we just fill up to just what is absolutely necessary and then we live in anxiety :)

I lived in Europe. Add to that a general lack of cash liquidity of the middle class. I.e. when you're poor you're not sure you might not need those extra euro 60 next week for an unforeseen emergency.

When we lived in Europe in the 90s, my mother would never fill up past a quarter tank.

Re: Pumps run dry at gas stations in Britain

#262

Post by mattowen_uk »

stinkytaco wrote: post #203
lpapez wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Depends a lot on the social status I think. Growing up in a poor household, we never worried about gas prices. When the salary came, we would buy 200HRK worth of petrol and use the car as long as it had petrol. After that, you walk. It was never a full tank and these days its not even half a tank.

I think about myself as a pretty standard middle class person who's obviously empathetic to those who have less. But this proves how easy it is to be out of touch an not even realize it. I really had no idea. I just assumed when you filled, you filled all the way.

Unless your petrol station is on one of your regular routes, it's false economy not to fill up completely when you have an empty tank, otherwise you are incurring an extra trip to the petrol station.

Of course if you can't afford a full tank, and are living hand to mouth each month/week, then you are in the poverty trap where everything is a percentage more expensive for you overall.

Re: Pumps run dry at gas stations in Britain

#263

Post by zabzonk »

rhino369 wrote: post #144
joeberon wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> when people don’t have capacity to buy any more. I'm confused, can't they just fill up jerry cans, or if garages aren't allowing this, just siphon the fuel out of the car at home?

Jerrycans are about 5 gallons and people tend to have only 1-3 of them. The nationwide capacity to store gas (in reasonable contentions) is probably pretty low compared to average sales.

> people tend to have only 1-3 of them

Well, zero more likely.

Re: Pumps run dry at gas stations in Britain

#264

Post by kristjansson »

humps wrote: post #105
TomGullen wrote: post #17

Unlike the toilet paper panic buying there is limited capacity people can buy, so I would expect this to naturally end short term when people don’t have capacity to buy any more. What concerns me is government planning to address this looks a lot more forward looking than a few days/a week, so I can see it getting worse. Interesting how the government say it’s not a shortage, if the refineries were running low you wo…

As Brian Madderson, chairman of the Petrol Retailers Association, explained on BBC Breakfast this morning. This happened because a BP document was leaked to the media, which unsurprisingly got them excited about a possible shortage and led to the panic buying. Madderson also said the industry is used to dealing with about 2 million liters of fuel being required a week, but that's with typical weekly fill-ups. He sugg…

> which you can't keep up with under any circumstances

What? This is a stocks and flows problem. If everyone filled up to the brim every time, but followed the same pattern of use otherwise, the weekly fuel consumed is exactly the same (modulo some tiny loss of efficiency due to cars being marginally heavier).

Of course a nation of half-full cars suddenly filling them to the brim demands much more fuel during the (short) period of time over which they make that transition, but that shouldn't create an expectation of drastically increased future _consumption_ of fuel.

Re: Pumps run dry at gas stations in Britain

#265

Post by yifanl »

thinkingemote wrote: post #110
fallingknife wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sounds like they do understand panic buying. The issue is that it's completely rational on an individual level. "Panic" buying isn't really a good term for it.

The issue is that everyone thinks they are rational, there's not a bunch of people panicking and another bunch of people reacting to them. There's just one bunch! So yes the term is wrong but also people don't know what it is, and how they negatively contribute to the cycle. People don't panic when they "panic buy". People don't see themselves as panic buying and they are not reflective

I'm sure game theorists have studied this problem extensively so I could be very wrong and just showing off my ignorance, but I would think that the rational/utilitarian thing in a situation where a large number of actors are acting selfishly is to also act selfishly, assuming you have no effective method of influencing those other actors.

Re: Pumps run dry at gas stations in Britain

#266

Post by fsslrisrchr »

Isinlor wrote: post #103
brightball wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just an observation. Ever since the announcement it seems like various groups on Reddit and elsewhere want to celebrate every difficulty that the UK experiences.

As a Polish citizen I want to see post-Brexit UK struggle, so that my government doesn't get any stupid ideas of leaving EU.

As an Italian citizen, I hope for Poland to leave so my country's net transfers less money to the eastern countries and will, hopefully, encourage Italy to grow a pair and leave

Re: Pumps run dry at gas stations in Britain

#267

Post by dukeyukey »

heywherelogingo wrote: post #237
dukeyukey wrote: post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can tell you now, the UK has functionally no restrictions within the country. You ought to wear masks on public transport, that's about it. Lockdown is over, for now at least.

You're saying effects are only instantaneous. No comment.

I don't think I'm saying that. The only thing I meant was the UK has no lockdown right now, and hasn't for a number of months. I imagine lockdown had some effect, but other countries that went through harsher conditions aren't seeing the shortages the UK is, so I imagine other things are more to blame.

Re: Pumps run dry at gas stations in Britain

#268

Post by handelaar »

mpweiher wrote: post #169
timellis-smith wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Brexit may be a (small) part of it, but it certainly isn't the whole picture. Btw much of Europe faces a shortage of drivers as well. There are a number of factors at play including delayed testing because of covid, relatively low wages, and perhaps drivers shifting to more local deliveries e.g. supermarkets post covid due to changing demand. I was speaking to a taxi driver who said the taxi industry was being decima…

The rest of Europe has mostly projected driver shortages, and no acute shortages of drivers, let alone goods. So yes, while there is a wider issue, the wider issue is not the current problem or the high-order bit. Note also that UGKOV plans to address the driver shortage by offering to ease restrictions on non UK-based (i.e. EU) drivers. So yes, this is totally due to Brexit.

...the same non-UK-based drivers that it proposes to kick out of the country again on December 24th. And the same drivers that last year on December 24th it corralled onto a disused airport runway behind fences and locked the doors so they couldn't go anywhere while being kicked out of the country.

Hard to imagine why they might not be jumping at the chance to spend another Xmas with no access to sanitation or even food in a place that is run by people who abuse them publicly every day

Re: Pumps run dry at gas stations in Britain

#269

Post by hermitcrab »

eCa wrote: post #84
brightball wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just an observation. Ever since the announcement it seems like various groups on Reddit and elsewhere want to celebrate every difficulty that the UK experiences.

I don’t think it’s reasonable to equate reddit with other EU member states. As an EU citizen I’m sorry that UK left. And I do hope that things will not get much worse in the UK, though I fear they might. I do think that brexit is the biggest self-inflicted harm a country has voluntarily done to itself in a really long time.

>I do think that brexit is the biggest self-inflicted harm a country has voluntarily done to itself in a really long time.

As someone who lives in the UK, I agree.

Re: Pumps run dry at gas stations in Britain

#270

Post by makomk »

listless wrote: post #201
humps wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As Brian Madderson, chairman of the Petrol Retailers Association, explained on BBC Breakfast this morning. This happened because a BP document was leaked to the media, which unsurprisingly got them excited about a possible shortage and led to the panic buying. Madderson also said the industry is used to dealing with about 2 million liters of fuel being required a week, but that's with typical weekly fill-ups. He sugg…

So the trucker shortage is a false conclusion? Cause this article states that’s the definitive cause. It reads to me like an axe to grind with Brexit and trying to tie this crisis to that political football.

The fuel supply problems actually caused by the shortage of truckers were such a minor issue that I doubt even the people affected by it would've noticed - a handful of petrol stations ran out in the entire country, and there's always the odd one that has some problem or another anyway. I think they'd been going on for a while too with nothing much changing. The widespread shortages that actually impact people are all due to the panic buying.
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