Earlier quoted context omitted.
If something is free, you are the product.
Air is free.
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Biden to mandate coronavirus vaccine for federal workers
261–270 of 437 posts
Re: Biden to mandate coronavirus vaccine for federal workers
#262Earlier quoted context omitted.
If you've had COVID, a vaccine can help with Long COVID symptoms, and it can reduce the risk of reinfection, so it's still better to be vaccinated than to catch COVID a second time.
The vaccine reportedly can also trigger a more severe immune response in people who already have naturally-acquired antibodies. Try to find good statistics on the rates and severity of adverse reactions for people who have already have COVID. I've had very little success.
This. And generally the possibility of more severe immune responses after vaxing. (Like with dengue for example) It is obvious these are a problem, and it's obvious we do not talk a out that right now.
Saying the vaccine is a perfect solution that will solve all our issues is just dellusional
Re: Biden to mandate coronavirus vaccine for federal workers
#263As a part-time libertarian, one of the frustrating parts of the pandemic has been discovering how many people need the nanny state to step to stop them punching themselves in the face. Near the start of the pandemic, I thought the most intrusive state powers would barely be needed. Why would you ever need to make a vaccine mandatory? What rational person would refuse a lifesaving medicine offered to them for free? We…
The whole point of democracy and freedom is that you convince people with words and not with sticks. If people are refusing a vaccine, that means you (as the political class, media class, scientific class) have failed your job to educate a segment of your population. It is easy to blame people for what could be your shortcomings. But this is not 5% or 10% of your population, it seems to be around 40-50%. This is more…
It doesn't help that major components of the "political class" are being the biggest babies and spreading straight up disinformation. Sure, we shouldn't have to have a mandate, but we are now at the point where it makes no sense not to have one and people can't see that because they are being routinely lied to by people that have the vaccine and by organizations that have the mandate.
Re: Biden to mandate coronavirus vaccine for federal workers
#264Earlier quoted context omitted.
Consider that in 1955 one of the companies producing the Salk Vaccine shipped 120,000 doses with live virus which sickened 40,000 children and sparked a polio epidemic. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cutter_Laboratories#Cutter_inc...
And yet numbers were still 90%+, so what does that say about their views on vaccine usefulness?
Or does it just tell the story of a time without easily accessible open media?
Re: Biden to mandate coronavirus vaccine for federal workers
#265Earlier quoted context omitted.
That's a really poisonous argument.
So is saying "Never trust an authority."
I'd just like to point out the US has justified deadly experiments and acts of war only to later apologize saying they made a terrible mistake time and time again. I thinking questioning the authority here, especially one that has such a poor reputation, is a good idea.
Re: Biden to mandate coronavirus vaccine for federal workers
#266Earlier quoted context omitted.
The whole point of democracy and freedom is that you convince people with words and not with sticks. If people are refusing a vaccine, that means you (as the political class, media class, scientific class) have failed your job to educate a segment of your population. It is easy to blame people for what could be your shortcomings. But this is not 5% or 10% of your population, it seems to be around 40-50%. This is more…
It doesn't help that major components of the "political class" are being the biggest babies and spreading straight up disinformation. Sure, we shouldn't have to have a mandate, but we are now at the point where it makes no sense not to have one and people can't see that because they are being routinely lied to by people that have the vaccine and by organizations that have the mandate.
> It doesn't help that major components of the "political class" are being the biggest babies and spreading straight up disinformation.
Again, this is your shortcoming. It doesn't get fixed by forcing people to have something injected inside of them and have their movement restricted by sanitary passports.
Re: Biden to mandate coronavirus vaccine for federal workers
#267Earlier quoted context omitted.
(1) It is population level rational to have diversity. Sometimes acting irrationally has payoffs because something wildly unexpected happens. (2) There is an almost endless list of things people do that are to their detriment. A core part of libertarianism is that people have to be free to make their own mistakes. We don't mandate exercise, prudent spending, safe sex practices or sensible family planning. The reasons…
avoiding exercise doesn't cause people around you to get fatter though.
And everyone is going to get coronavirus sooner or later, regardless of how vaccinated the population is. Because if the virus was stopped dead by vaccination then it wouldn't matter what other people did, and if it isn't then ... vaccines aren't going to stop you catching it eventually.
Besides, there have been crazy ideas floated like making an issue out of vaccinating people who have already had & recovered from COVID. They're less likely to spread the coronavirus around than any other demographic.
Re: Biden to mandate coronavirus vaccine for federal workers
#268As a part-time libertarian, one of the frustrating parts of the pandemic has been discovering how many people need the nanny state to step to stop them punching themselves in the face. Near the start of the pandemic, I thought the most intrusive state powers would barely be needed. Why would you ever need to make a vaccine mandatory? What rational person would refuse a lifesaving medicine offered to them for free? We…
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Re: Biden to mandate coronavirus vaccine for federal workers
#269As a part-time libertarian, one of the frustrating parts of the pandemic has been discovering how many people need the nanny state to step to stop them punching themselves in the face. Near the start of the pandemic, I thought the most intrusive state powers would barely be needed. Why would you ever need to make a vaccine mandatory? What rational person would refuse a lifesaving medicine offered to them for free? We…
I'm a libertarian and I think choices should be up to the individual, because it's never ok to have a political group decide for you what is good or bad. It's antithetical to western liberalism. My rant aside, I think there are better and worse ways to infringe on people's liberty when needed. And given the way the winds are blowing, it would be much better to enforce vaccination at the federal level, i.e. compel peo…
This is compelling people by law to get it. Biden is using a law that is on the books to compel people to get it. I don't see the problem here. Any law that would be passed would be just as patch work and also require people to give up medical information. Truthfully, at this point this just sounds like an excuse not to do it.
Re: Biden to mandate coronavirus vaccine for federal workers
#270Earlier quoted context omitted.
I'm a libertarian and I think choices should be up to the individual, because it's never ok to have a political group decide for you what is good or bad. It's antithetical to western liberalism. My rant aside, I think there are better and worse ways to infringe on people's liberty when needed. And given the way the winds are blowing, it would be much better to enforce vaccination at the federal level, i.e. compel peo…
I think part of the difficulty with the libertarian point of view regarding the COVID vaccine is that not all parties are given a free choice either. For example, if someone refuses a vaccine, should an emergency room be free to refuse care? Currently, they can not due to EMTALA. That's not to say that it's unreasonable to question and philosophize the implications of a mandate. At the same time, barring a more effec…
> For example, if someone refuses a vaccine, should an emergency room be free to refuse care? Currently, they can not due to EMTALA.
Should not refuse care. A lot of people have unhealthy lifestyles (eating lots of processed foods, sugary soda drinks, don’t exercise, smoke, …). We also don’t refuse healthcare to these people even if they make poor life choices.
Since many people on this site live and work in the USA, I would guess more likely than not plenty of people are obese here. You don’t magically become obese. Yet you deserve healthcare, since you pay taxes, pay for a health insurance, etc…