FDA Approves First Covid-19 Vaccine • Hacker News Board

Re: FDA Approves First Covid-19 Vaccine

#261

Post by hcurtiss » Mon, Aug 23, 2021, 2:56 PM UTC

c7DJTLrn wrote: post #40

eganist wrote: post #2

My biggest concern now is around seeing those who hedged their willingness to get the vaccine on its approval instead find a new reason not to get it. So with that in mind, I'm much more keen on seeing how employers will decide on vaccination mandates now that at least one vaccine is fully approved. Any news yet on whether any more employers are likely implementing mandates (if they haven't already this morning) base…

Concern? Why? The virus is under control in countries where the vaccine rollout has been swift. Why do you sound so keen to force something on people that they don't want, regardless of their reasons? Shouldn't people have the right to choose what they take? If people can lose their jobs over it then clearly they don't have that right - that's a form of coercion/blackmail. I think the focus on a small minority of peo…

>” The virus is under control in countries where the vaccine rollout has been swift.”

Israel would like a word with you.

https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsandsoda/2021/08/20/1029628...

Re: FDA Approves First Covid-19 Vaccine

#262

Post by alonmower » Mon, Aug 23, 2021, 2:56 PM UTC

daenz wrote: post #125

peakaboo wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you are right. People won't change their minds about it. But the question is, should they be allowed to control what goes inside their bodies? In my opinion, the answer is a huge YES OF COURSE.

The counter that is commonly used against that is "well when it affects other people's health, then you don't get to choose." There are a lot of assumptions in that counterargument that people will hope you don't examine, for example, the assumption that the probability of a covid transmission ending in harm crosses the same probability threshold if, say, drunk driving ending in harm. I say it doesn't. And since the…

I’d argue it’s higher given the exponential nature of disease transmission. While the odds of harm in who you directly transmit the virus to might be lower than the odds of you hurting someone drunk driving, if you play the tape forwards it’s almost a foregone conclusion that you’ll kill more people in the chain of people you infect than you would if you were drunk driving.

Also vaccine requirements aren’t anything new, so is the concern here that they’re mandating vaccines or this specific vaccine due to how new it is? If the latter, then what’s your bar for acceptance?

Re: FDA Approves First Covid-19 Vaccine

#263

Post by Pyramus » Mon, Aug 23, 2021, 2:56 PM UTC

mlang23 wrote: post #242

michaelbuckbee wrote: post #221

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I recent came across a technique for having a more substantial discussion and it was to ask: "Well, what would it take for you to change your mind?" Not that this is a silver bullet that automatically leads to peace and harmony, but it's a step in the right direction.

Why does this technique change anything? You are still assuming the supposed superior position, since you imply that the stance of your discussion partner is wrong and needs to be changed. Dont you see how patronising this is?

I think you misunderstood the technique, e.g. you can simply apply it to yourself.

If there is nothing that will change one's position, it's not worth engaging because the outcome is set.

Re: FDA Approves First Covid-19 Vaccine

#264

Post by gthtjtkt » Mon, Aug 23, 2021, 2:57 PM UTC

acdha wrote: post #6

I’m wondering what the odds are that people will pivot from “it’s experimental” to “it was rushed due to politics/greed”. I think a huge factor will be how many employers, colleges, etc. are now willing and legally able to require vaccination. It’s one thing to say you trust something you read on Facebook more than your doctor and quite another to walk away from a job because of it.

I'll let you in on a little secret: FDA approval was never important to the people who won't get a COVID vaccine. It was simply the easiest way to get smug, condescending know-it-alls like you to stop bugging them.

Personally I won't go near a COVID vaccine until they're eligible for the VICP.

Re: FDA Approves First Covid-19 Vaccine

#265

Post by JulianMorrison » Mon, Aug 23, 2021, 2:57 PM UTC

defaultprimate wrote: post #234

bluGill wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> herd immunity will be reached at 70% vaccination + infected, ah no actually only vaccinated count and it's 90%... did I say 99%? No, it will be 100%! 70% is enough for the original Covid. Covid moved the goalposts to Delta which needs different numbers. This is not experts moving the goalposts, this is Covid changing on us - as was always expected to happen and why experts said we don't know what % is required unti…

Mutations were obviously going to happen from the get go. When questioned about this exact thing "experts" still stated that 70% would prevent this from happening, until they were wrong.

70% of non receptive surrounding people is enough to stifle any virus.

What changed was whether the surrounding people were receptive to infection and capable of spreading it.

Re: FDA Approves First Covid-19 Vaccine

#266

Post by daenz » Mon, Aug 23, 2021, 2:58 PM UTC

pille wrote: post #163

peakaboo wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you are right. People won't change their minds about it. But the question is, should they be allowed to control what goes inside their bodies? In my opinion, the answer is a huge YES OF COURSE.

This is also about what’s coming out of their bodies and going into others’.

Making it illegal to harm someone by transmitting a disease to them, and all of the logistical problems with proving it, makes more sense than mandating the covid vaccine.

Re: FDA Approves First Covid-19 Vaccine

#267

Post by rotexo » Mon, Aug 23, 2021, 2:58 PM UTC

michaelbuckbee wrote: post #221

version_five wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I’m wondering what the odds are that people will pivot from “it’s experimental” to “it was rushed due to politics/greed”. No doubt this will be the case for some. So, you've found a logical flaw in people's stated reasons for not wanting a vaccine. How does that help anything? In these kinds of debates, the actual goals or beliefs of both sides often differ from what they say. For example, the government being able…

I recent came across a technique for having a more substantial discussion and it was to ask: "Well, what would it take for you to change your mind?" Not that this is a silver bullet that automatically leads to peace and harmony, but it's a step in the right direction.

That question might best be prefaced with “here’s what would change my mind… what about yours?” That formulation might come across as more curious and open rather than patronizing. Though I honestly don’t at all understand the mindset of people who don’t want the vaccine, so I have to admit this approach could quite easily still be offensive.

Re: FDA Approves First Covid-19 Vaccine

#268

Post by bastardoperator » Mon, Aug 23, 2021, 2:58 PM UTC

c7DJTLrn wrote: post #165

bastardoperator wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's socially irresponsible and the impact to others is possible death. I wouldn't have a problem if these people weren't spreading death to others, but instead, they choose to force themselves on the rest of us because "freedom". The same people that don't understand vaccines are also likely to think masks don't work, so they take zero precautions when it comes to their safety and others. The focus is just, these fo…

Please see my other reply. Vaccinated people have a significantly reduced risk of death, so there is virtually no risk from being exposed to those without a vaccination. >The same people that don't understand vaccines are also likely to think masks don't work I don't see how this is relevant. It just seems like a strawman argument to dismiss people who might have legitimate reasons for not having the vaccine or other…

Cool story, the facts however show unvaccinated people are filling up hospitals and children under 12 which account for approx 75 million people or approx 20%+ of the population in the US are now being impacted and they're not eligible for vaccination.

Re: FDA Approves First Covid-19 Vaccine

#269

Post by ceejayoz » Mon, Aug 23, 2021, 2:58 PM UTC

throwawayboise wrote: post #129

josephorjoe wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, i would expect a lot of announcements this week. Looks like NYC Public Schools are going to mandate all staff be vaccinated ( https://www.nytimes.com/2021/08/23/nyregion/nyc-schools-empl... ). I would expect most hospitals/health care organizations to pretty quickly mandate it as well. There is very little incentive for a large organization to take on the added costs of allowing a large percent of their staff/me…

Where I live, 50% are unvaccinated. That's not a small minority.

The "small minority" is stated in the parent comment to be the "desperate, angry anti-vax people". Some of those are in the 50%, but quite a few are "meh, whatever" apathy or mildly anti-vax there too.

Re: FDA Approves First Covid-19 Vaccine

#270

Post by ryandrake » Mon, Aug 23, 2021, 2:58 PM UTC

defaultprimate wrote: post #222

enumjorge wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Again with this argument. This particular decision with their bodies is harming others. Getting really drunk and driving home is also a decision about your body. So is smoking inside restaurants. Those have been illegal for a while. For those of us who got the vaccine, we’re still having to take precautions because of the delta variant spikes, largely from people who didn’t get a vaccine. Where is our choice?

There is a great chasm between direct action resulting in tragedy and inaction for the preservation of autonomy having an infinitesimally small probability of directly resulting in tragedy. Comparing choosing to drive drunk with not choosing to take a particular action that has an infinitesimally small probability of directly causing tragedy are not remotely comparable.

Inaction is a deliberate choice. It doesn't matter if it's driven by some misguided notion of "autonomy". Deliberately choosing not to get vaccinated is about as close a comparison with drunk driving as you can get. People are deliberately choosing to behave recklessly, with possible deadly results for others. The only difference is one reckless choice is against the law and one is not.