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A shot to prevent Lyme disease could be on its way

outsideonline.com

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Re: A shot to prevent Lyme disease could be on its way

#261

Post by jorblumesea »

hitpointdrew wrote: post #239
wildmanx wrote: post #236

What shocks me most with this story is that there is a vaccine (Lymerix), and it's pretty effective (76-92 percent after three injections) but apparently some anti-vax propaganda and a class-action lawsuit essentially removed it from the market. Based on a very rare side effect. Wtf? How can that be? Just tell people the risks of side effects, and if they are ok with that risk then the manufacturer is off the hook. I…

>but apparently some anti-vax propaganda and a class-action lawsuit essentially removed it from the market. Based on a very rare side effect. Wtf? How can that be? It wasn't "very rare" and the side effect was that it literally gave people lym disease. Why are vaccinations a political thing now, and if anyone raises any questions whatsoever on any vaccine they are "anit-vax".

> Why are vaccinations a political thing now

You could flip that upside down and ask why people are questioning the experts. Despite having almost no knowledge of statistics, epidemiology and other required skills. Vaccines with rare or almost no side effects are being called into question.

Re: A shot to prevent Lyme disease could be on its way

#262

Post by dukeofdoom »

wildmanx wrote: post #236

What shocks me most with this story is that there is a vaccine (Lymerix), and it's pretty effective (76-92 percent after three injections) but apparently some anti-vax propaganda and a class-action lawsuit essentially removed it from the market. Based on a very rare side effect. Wtf? How can that be? Just tell people the risks of side effects, and if they are ok with that risk then the manufacturer is off the hook. I…

You know, its not impossible for millions of people to have long term side effects from COVID. The absolute overconfidence in its long term safety is based on nothing other than wish full thinking. There are early signs, and warning from Doctors now. They just ignored and gaslighted by corporate media, and sadly people like you that don't know the history of previous accidents with vaccines. Early Polio Vaccines caused 40,000 children, and more than 50 paralyzed.

Re: A shot to prevent Lyme disease could be on its way

#263

Post by mrfusion »

patall wrote: post #256
mrfusion wrote: post #104

I’ve found the biggest places to watch out for ticks are where not many people go. Little travelled trails. The heavily trafficked areas seem to have way less ticks. My working theory is the deer to human ratio of an area determines how many deer ticks.

My grandma just got Lyme with pretty high certainty in her own garden. In suburbia in a million people city. With a deer:people ratio of about 0.00. From my understanding, ticks can be in any type of grass. If you somehow touch grass of any type, be it walking, sitting or hand-mowing, there is a chance of picking one up. Sure, there are few ticks in very populated areas, but I would rather guess that more people equa…

Interesting. Maybe my formula only works for rural and suburbs. Maybe get enough people and they become the vector for the ticks.

Re: A shot to prevent Lyme disease could be on its way

#264

Post by mrfusion »

at_a_remove wrote: post #247
mrfusion wrote: post #198

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They could probably crawl over from your neighbors yard. Not sure how far they travel. Or hitch a ride on mice? Wow if tick killing meds exist for dogs maybe we could get deer on those. Problem solved?

I know when I bring my deer into the vet for their annual checkup, they'll probably offer the shot pretty soon.

You could mix it into food or salt licks or even hire people to hit them with medicine darts.

I thought I’ve heard of that for deer birth control before?

Re: A shot to prevent Lyme disease could be on its way

#265

Post by computer23 »

rgrieselhuber wrote: post #179
voisin wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How are you getting checked? I understood (perhaps wrongly) that the blood tests are only accurate well beyond the window with which the medications are effective, creating a chicken and egg issue.

I've heard that Fry Labs is one of the only labs to do blood testing, but I haven't tried them myself: https://frylabs.com/resources/lyme-disease-and-detection/

Fry Labs is listed on Quackwatch's list of "Laboratories Doing Nonstandard Laboratory Tests": https://quackwatch.org/related/tests/nonstandard/

The CDC warns against nonstandard testing: https://www.cdc.gov/lyme/diagnosistesting/labtest/otherlab/i...

You'd be surprised how little regulation that some lab testing gets: https://sciencebasedmedicine.org/new-fda-regulatory-role-thr...

There are a lot more predatory labs than Theranos out there...

Re: A shot to prevent Lyme disease could be on its way

#266

Post by 1053r »

dukeofdoom wrote: post #262
wildmanx wrote: post #236

What shocks me most with this story is that there is a vaccine (Lymerix), and it's pretty effective (76-92 percent after three injections) but apparently some anti-vax propaganda and a class-action lawsuit essentially removed it from the market. Based on a very rare side effect. Wtf? How can that be? Just tell people the risks of side effects, and if they are ok with that risk then the manufacturer is off the hook. I…

You know, its not impossible for millions of people to have long term side effects from COVID. The absolute overconfidence in its long term safety is based on nothing other than wish full thinking. There are early signs, and warning from Doctors now. They just ignored and gaslighted by corporate media, and sadly people like you that don't know the history of previous accidents with vaccines. Early Polio Vaccines caus…

The deep irony here is that you wrote "its not impossible for millions of people to have long term side effects from COVID."

While it's clear from the rest of your post that you meant the vaccines, you accidentally ended up making your own counterpoint! It is ABSOLUTELY possible for millions of people to have long term side effects from COVID, the disease.

It would be a brand new thing for a vaccine to give so many people side effects so long after the shot. No vaccine has ever given people side effects that didn't show up within about 6 weeks.

Yes, some people had side effects from the Polio vaccine. But you know what was far more likely to cause lifelong side effects? Polio!

Re: A shot to prevent Lyme disease could be on its way

#267

Post by rogers18445 »

contravariant wrote: post #54

> a relatively uncommon treatment for Lyme in which doctors siphon some blood, blast it with electromagnetic waves, and then drip it back into the bloodstream That's a weird description, depending on what kind of waves this could be anything from microwaving the blood to blasting it with UV or just shining some rainbow coloured lights on it.

Ionizing radiation. Ingenious approach, sort of a pseudo-vaccine, kills and breaks apart a pathogen in the blood that was taken and when re-injected it presents a greater attack surface for the immune system to learn about the pathogen. Also whatever active measures the pathogen cells in the sample were taking to evade attention are no longer in effect since it's dead.

Re: A shot to prevent Lyme disease could be on its way

#268

Post by koheripbal »

wildmanx wrote: post #242
hitpointdrew wrote: post #239

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>but apparently some anti-vax propaganda and a class-action lawsuit essentially removed it from the market. Based on a very rare side effect. Wtf? How can that be? It wasn't "very rare" and the side effect was that it literally gave people lym disease. Why are vaccinations a political thing now, and if anyone raises any questions whatsoever on any vaccine they are "anit-vax".

> It wasn't "very rare" and the side effect was that it literally gave people lym disease. Again, 59 of 1.4 million. I call that "very rare". About half a million Americans get Lyme from ticks, every year. You do the math. Even if there is a causal connection to the shot (which has not been established) then that's still orders of magnitude lower than the risk of actually getting the bacteria in you if you somewhat f…

hmm... we need to compare rates of infection, not raw numbers since only a small number of the population ever received the lime disease vaccine, and both populations reside only in part of the US.

In any case, I agree with the underlying point that it's a travesty that the vaccine was taken off the market due to fear-mongering and unproven allegations.

It's a testament to the failure of the judicial system to protect against frivolous lawsuits.

Re: A shot to prevent Lyme disease could be on its way

#269

Post by anon946 »

hitpointdrew wrote: post #239
wildmanx wrote: post #236

What shocks me most with this story is that there is a vaccine (Lymerix), and it's pretty effective (76-92 percent after three injections) but apparently some anti-vax propaganda and a class-action lawsuit essentially removed it from the market. Based on a very rare side effect. Wtf? How can that be? Just tell people the risks of side effects, and if they are ok with that risk then the manufacturer is off the hook. I…

>but apparently some anti-vax propaganda and a class-action lawsuit essentially removed it from the market. Based on a very rare side effect. Wtf? How can that be? It wasn't "very rare" and the side effect was that it literally gave people lym disease. Why are vaccinations a political thing now, and if anyone raises any questions whatsoever on any vaccine they are "anit-vax".

Investigation found that the incidence was no higher than for unvaccinated individuals (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2870557/):

>By 2001, with over 1·4 million Lyme vaccine doses distributed in the United States the VAERS database included 905 reports of mild self-limited reactions and 59 reports of arthritis associated with vaccination [29]. The arthritis incidence in the patients receiving Lyme vaccine occurred at the same rate as the background in unvaccinated individuals. In addition, the data did not show a temporal spike in arthritis diagnoses after the second and third vaccine dose expected for an immune-mediated phenomenon. The FDA found no suggestion that the Lyme vaccine caused harm to its recipients.

Re: A shot to prevent Lyme disease could be on its way

#270

Post by DetroitThrow »

giantg2 wrote: post #92
akyu wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>The scientific consensus today is what is stated in the linked wikipedia article. Simply saying this doesn't make it true. This is not true and that Wikipedia article is outdated.

I think even the article makes a mention that there is not scientific consensus on many aspects of Lyme disease. It seems it is one of many topics that have studies that may contradict other studies, or explore additional angles.

The article seems to indicate that consensus does not support Chronic Lyme Disease, instead preferring Post Treatment Lyme Disease as a pathology (which doesn't seem unlikely if the disease causes nervous system damage). It also mentions reinfection has been recorded. I'm only really seeing one data point being posted to counter that idea, and that doesn't seem to exclude the reinfection scenario.

I guess the hope for promoters of CLD would be that it's possible to treat the currently irreversible PTLD symptoms using antibiotics, rather than accept something akin to a fibromyalgia diagnosis.

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