iDOS 2 will be gone soon • Hacker News Board

Re: iDOS 2 will be gone soon

#261

Post by judge2020 » Fri, Jul 23, 2021, 5:36 PM UTC

idle_zealot wrote: post #257

deelowe wrote: post #229

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No. Just no... We need another PC revolution for phones. Not every problem has to be solved by force or coercion.

Not every problem, no. But I don’t see the invisible hand of the market fixing this one. I don’t think most users care about how open their technology is; the downsides are too nebulous and distant to drive consumer spending away from walled gardens.

If most users don't care about how open their technology is, why would such a change benefit them/why would they agree to it? Surely they would choose a more open system if they really wanted one (especially since Android phones that can sideload apps from the internet are going to be cheaper than iPhone anyways).

Re: iDOS 2 will be gone soon

#262

Post by Jiro » Fri, Jul 23, 2021, 5:39 PM UTC

alerighi wrote: post #244

tlholaday wrote: post #170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> … people should be allowed to make their own decisions … Should they be allowed to decide to buy a device whose manufacturer maintains a sole-source app retailer?

Most people don't know this thing when they go to buy the device, and of course nobody will tell you about that. If on the box there is written "THIS DEVICE WILL ONLY RUN SOFTWARE APPROVED BY APPLE", how many people would buy that? In reality most people don't know this thing. They discover it later, when they ask some more expert friend "can you install me an app to do so, like the one you have on your phone", and y…

>If on the box there is written "THIS DEVICE WILL ONLY RUN SOFTWARE APPROVED BY APPLE", how many people would buy that?

My toaster can't run any software at all.

Most people will care about their inability to run their own software on their iPhone about as much as they care about running it on their toaster, or car, or desk. Most people are not naturally hackers or tinkerers.

>Or when someone goes to you asking for an iOS app and

If someone is going to you asking for an app that you compiled yourself, let alone one that you programmed yourself, they're such a statistical anomaly it isn't funny.

Re: iDOS 2 will be gone soon

#263

Post by Teknoman117 » Fri, Jul 23, 2021, 5:39 PM UTC

slg wrote: post #235

xerox13ster wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We had a third option but developers very publicly refused to support it and Google worked tirelessly to hamstring it in every way they could. Now we're all crying for a third platform because Apple is too restrictive and Google, surprise (to no one least of all WP users), turned out to be evil and I feel absolutely no sympathy for the tech community, particularly developers who decry the current paradigm. We chose t…

For anyone that remember the 90s it is utterly bizarre to hear Microsoft talked about as some type of potential savior that was unfairly muscled out of the market. I don't disagree that having a third player in the space would improve things, but it is just weird how the perception of some companies change.

Yeah. Their contribution to Linux over the last few years always has me either giggling or suspicious. I realize that they have concrete reasons to support it considering how dominant Linux instances are on Azure, but considering the "open source is cancer" or "Linux users are communist thieves" comments from the late 90's or early 00's, it's hard to believe.

Re: iDOS 2 will be gone soon

#264

Post by ziml77 » Fri, Jul 23, 2021, 5:39 PM UTC

gurleen_s wrote: post #217

the_dune_13 wrote: post #198

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or states demanding yearly inspections if your car is up to safety standard and your modification didn't make it more dangerous / unlhealthy for the public. Absolutely ridiculous.

I don’t see how these two things are in any way related. If your car is unsafe, you could kill someone. If you sideload an app on your phone, that only affects you. There’s a line we must all draw between personal freedom and the right of others to also be free when you decide to live in a society with other people.

An malicious app that turns your device into another botnet zombie definitely does affect others.

Re: iDOS 2 will be gone soon

#265

Post by user-the-name » Fri, Jul 23, 2021, 5:40 PM UTC

arvinsim wrote: post #259

user-the-name wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The rules include a limited exception for educational purposes, which Swift Playgrounds also falls under.

And when did they make that exception?

Probably around the time they launched Swift Playgrounds, I have not checked. They set the rules, they get to change the rules. But the same rules still apply them as to everyone else.

Re: iDOS 2 will be gone soon

#266

Post by minikites » Fri, Jul 23, 2021, 5:40 PM UTC

verytrivial wrote: post #158

nicolas_t wrote: post #112

The mobile landscape presents a very difficult choice. Choose Android, get actual access to your device and install what you want but have your privacy completely trampled upon by Google Choose Apple, get marginally better privacy but no ownership of your phone and no possibility to install what you want. I wish we had a reasonable alternative, it's so frustrating to have to choose between two bad alternatives and th…

Re: Android, I tried to log out of YouTube on my phone yesterday. It said "Sure, as long as you don't mind logging out of GMail too." I was taken aback by this -- I didn't realise this was a hostage situation.

The other solution is to stop using Gmail and switch to something like Fastmail.

Re: iDOS 2 will be gone soon

#267

Post by Teknoman117 » Fri, Jul 23, 2021, 5:41 PM UTC

nicolas_t wrote: post #112

The mobile landscape presents a very difficult choice. Choose Android, get actual access to your device and install what you want but have your privacy completely trampled upon by Google Choose Apple, get marginally better privacy but no ownership of your phone and no possibility to install what you want. I wish we had a reasonable alternative, it's so frustrating to have to choose between two bad alternatives and th…

I really wish there was a large enough player to get non-Android (Linux) drivers for the flagship mobile phone processors.

The fastest of the open source phones right now has the same processor as the Pixel 2. IIRC it might even be another libhybris implementation (glibc/mesa/gbm userspace on an Android kernel and driver stack).

Re: iDOS 2 will be gone soon

#268

Post by user-the-name » Fri, Jul 23, 2021, 5:42 PM UTC

codetrotter wrote: post #150

LucidLynx wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Swift Playground is listed in the App Store... So no, Apple apps listed in the App Store must follow their rules. I checked quickly in the guide and no mention of "Me, Apple, can do whatever I want in my store."

Apple doesn’t need to say in the rules that they can do what they want, because they are the ones enforcing the rules. They can exempt anyone, including themselves, from the rules for any reason including no reason, without having to say anything about that in the rules. Human rules are not computer code, and also not mathematical. Human rules can be interpreted, bent and ignored. Sometimes at great risk, sometimes a…

They don't, though, at least not in this case. There are special exemptions for educational programming software in the App Store, that covers Swift Playgrounds, but also others wanting to create similar things.

Re: iDOS 2 will be gone soon

#269

Post by anthk » Fri, Jul 23, 2021, 5:42 PM UTC

hulitu wrote: post #220

tempodox wrote: post #193

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I remember several articles from the time the iPad came out that phantasized about how the iPad could replace PCs (as in “Personal Computer”) one day, even from Steve Jobs. Today that idea looks nothing but ludicrous. It was Apple themselves that nipped that notion in the bud, no competition required. If you want to do anything other than gaming and media consumption, don't buy an iDevice.

That's what they say about tablets in general. But there is a loooong way. Filesystem access in Android is a mess, typing is a mess, multitasking is a mess (it seems that only services can run at the same time). Want to do some engineering work ? Good luck finding something. Want to do SW development ? There are some BASIC intetpreters. Security ? Two choices: all and none. User interface: Windows 1.0 ( though Micros…

You have termux and lots of cli languages. Also, TCL/TK with AndroWish.

Re: iDOS 2 will be gone soon

#270

Post by smoldesu » Fri, Jul 23, 2021, 5:43 PM UTC

fab1an wrote: post #172

I feel that Apple solve the problem of freedom vs security quite well on Mac: you can download and run whatever software you want, but there's a sort of "Captcha" involved (where you need to right-click + open to run software from non-registered devs). This prevents mom and dad from installing a bunch of Spyware, but let's me run obscure and cool apps by indie developers as I please.

It's a step in the right direction, but I found it pretty frustrating in comparison to the way Linux/Windows handle things. It's not as draconian as iOS, but I probably spent 50-60% of my setup time trying to get Gatekeeper to treat me like the administrator of my own computer.