Building a vision of life without work (2015) • Hacker News Board

Re: Building a vision of life without work (2015)

#261

Post by AnIdiotOnTheNet » Tue, Jul 13, 2021, 6:48 PM UTC

hesdeadjim wrote: post #118

lupire wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think the Amish are particularly rich or childless?

This is where assumptions can get you in trouble. The Amish are extremely business savvy, shrewd negotiators, and have no issues being active members in the economy. They also own vast tracts of very valuable land (especially in Lancaster, PA). Combine that with being frugal and austere, and it's a recipe for wealth. For childcare, their community focus let's them share the burden amongst the larger group. Additional…

Amish are pretty much like everyone else though, there are dirt-poor Amish communities out there to counter-balance your land-and-small-business-rich ones.

Re: Building a vision of life without work (2015)

#262

Post by scarby2 » Tue, Jul 13, 2021, 6:49 PM UTC

sunshineforever wrote: post #241

PragmaticPulp wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Previously my underlying approach to life looked like: "I will do X which will enable me to do Y so that I can finally do Z." I now approach my days with "What will make me happy?" Great insight that is worth repeating. One of my biggest problems with FIRE discussions is how much they reinforce the idea that retirement is a prerequisite for achieving happiness. This leads a lot of FIRE-minded people to double down…

I would feel like a king with 20k a year and so I am trying to find the right degree to work 3, maybe 2 days a week to be able to achieve this? Any suggestions?

> I would feel like a king with 20k a year and so I am trying to find the right degree to work 3, maybe 2 days a week to be able to achieve this?

20k? did you miss a digit? That's less than my rent for the year...

for 3 days anything that pays more than $18 an hour and allows for flexible scheduling

you don't need a degree for this.

Medical transcription, coding and billing, working as a PA, Truck driving, nursing the list goes on.

Re: Building a vision of life without work (2015)

#263

Post by wing-_-nuts » Tue, Jul 13, 2021, 6:49 PM UTC

opportune wrote: post #197

kevinwang wrote: post #5

This person also posted an amazing, unvarnished update recently (about 5-6 years later): https://livingafi.com/2021/03/17/the-2021-early-retirement-u...

I really don’t like how he tries to diminish his partner’s feeling about “falling behind” as some mirage created by Instagram and classism. I think it’s pretty uncontroversial that most people don’t want to live on $30k/year for their entire life when they could maybe work and get more. Though maybe this is colored by the relevation that follows shortly thereafter. To me it shows an unwillingness to think critically…

I mean, she was down for FIRE. I'm sure they discussed the budget before hand. If things changed, and she wanted to go back to work to live a more luxurious lifestyle, well, she's welcome to? He's under no obligation to do the same. I feel like she wanted him to return to work as well to keep up with the jones's and I can understand him saying no to that.

Re: Building a vision of life without work (2015)

#264

Post by CleverLikeAnOx » Tue, Jul 13, 2021, 6:50 PM UTC

garmaine wrote: post #229

CleverLikeAnOx wrote: post #227

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I doubt the author sees being frugal as a rut and I doubt that the author sees "getting more" as advancement. You and the other are both human and normal regardless. The author's outlook on life is completely valid, so is his partner's, so is yours. Your outlooks has nothing to do with social media, but maybe his partner's really did. We only have the author's words to go by for this story.

I'm not criticizing his own choices. What I'm surprised at is his lack of empathy for his partner's. We have only one side of the story, but it does seem very one-sided.

Agreed, especially after reading this post https://livingafi.com/post-fire-relationship-disconnect/

It's a dialog he is creating as a summary of many discussions. In his version of the story they both communicate well and seem to hear each other, but not agree on life. Then his takeaway is that she didn't hear him, which was an odd take.

Re: Building a vision of life without work (2015)

#265

Post by rubicon33 » Tue, Jul 13, 2021, 6:50 PM UTC

zoba wrote: post #67

I was 2nd employee at a unicorn startup and have been on a work-hiatus for almost a year. Now, I live amongst Amish people in the country. My biggest insight has been a mindset change. Previously my underlying approach to life looked like: "I will do X which will enable me to do Y so that I can finally do Z." I now approach my days with "What will make me happy?" This is an experiment I'm performing. A structured lif…

This is EXACTLY why I am so hell bent on retiring early. I recognized this aspect of my being very early on in life. My interests come and go, but they are strong. I am capable of achieving anything when my mind is truly interested in it but unfortunately my mind grows bored with things eventually. In retirement, I would just pursue whatever interests me at the time! Whether its software, hardware, automotive, or just reading.

That freedom is truly priceless.

I only wish I too were 2nd at a unicorn startup ;)

Re: Building a vision of life without work (2015)

#266

Post by germinalphrase » Tue, Jul 13, 2021, 6:50 PM UTC

PicassoCTs wrote: post #151

The most drag on a life without work, is put by having to buy physical products, that are not useful, except for status display or decoration. This is why AR- done right would be such a game-changer. No more throw-away decoration bought at ikea. No more physical products like books, any stone with a small piece of cloth, could be a book. No more displays of status by buying advertised products - instead, status is wh…

The de-materialization of AR could lead in the direction you’re discussing, but almost certainly won’t. The infrastructure is/will be developed by organizations that are explicitly a part of (and escalate) the material and status culture you deride. Some of these companies explicitly make their wealth based on advertising and will hardly give up those profit streams willingly when the shift to AR takes place. Most people are trapped playing other people’s games, but the shift to AR won’t solve that.

Re: Building a vision of life without work (2015)

#267

Post by qntty » Tue, Jul 13, 2021, 6:54 PM UTC

dheera wrote: post #187

SavantIdiot wrote: post #39

I'm 52 and have 2.5MM in an IRA (200k cash) and debt of just a $200k mortgage (and this is weaksauce compared to my peers who all became VPs or C*Os). And the idea of trying to live off an IRA that is currently stocks/bonds/ETFs scares the bejeebers out of me. I think it is more about the personality than the money: do you have the risk-tolerance like this guy to say "fuck it, it will all work out," or are you like m…

How do you get 2.5M in an IRA if they only let you put in 6K a year? Can you buy dogecoin in an IRA?

The 6k limit is for a Roth IRA, which is only one kind of IRA.

Re: Building a vision of life without work (2015)

#268

Post by jjk166 » Tue, Jul 13, 2021, 6:55 PM UTC

PragmaticPulp wrote: post #3

This is one of the biggest missing pieces in internet FIRE discussions. So much of the FIRE discourse is about not working that many don’t realize that they’re going to be extremely bored with 16 hours to fill every day. Worse, their friends are all busy with their lives. It’s actually a common failure point of FIRE post-mittens that didn’t work out. Especially with couples, where it’s more likely that at least one p…

Hobbies, travel, volunteering, education, projects, consulting - there are a lot of ways to spend your time when you don't need to worry about money for survival. Hell even if you keep working your current job, the knowledge that you don't have to and that you can walk away at any time is extremely liberating. I enjoy what I do, and I'll keep on doing it in some capacity long after I retire, but the "in some capacity" is really key.

Re: Building a vision of life without work (2015)

#269

Post by CleverLikeAnOx » Tue, Jul 13, 2021, 6:56 PM UTC

AnIdiotOnTheNet wrote: post #7

PragmaticPulp wrote: post #3

This is one of the biggest missing pieces in internet FIRE discussions. So much of the FIRE discourse is about not working that many don’t realize that they’re going to be extremely bored with 16 hours to fill every day. Worse, their friends are all busy with their lives. It’s actually a common failure point of FIRE post-mittens that didn’t work out. Especially with couples, where it’s more likely that at least one p…

Got to admit that watching people struggle with the question of what to do without a job to fill their time is just completely wild to me. It is difficult for me to imagine someone who has so little they want to do outside of work that they can't easily find ways to fill up the 8+ hours a day their job takes from them. I have a list of things I'd like to do a mile long that I know I'll never actually find time to do…

I am in the same boat. I am 6 months into FIRE, and the list of things to do is growing, not shrinking.

However, I would say that some things on the list turn out to be false. That is, I like the idea of doing them, but not enough to actually do it. So do account for some of your post FIRE ideas turning out to be just daydreams you aren't actually committed to.

Re: Building a vision of life without work (2015)

#270

Post by mnowicki » Tue, Jul 13, 2021, 6:57 PM UTC

mgh2 wrote: post #135

vlunkr wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn't the post you're replying to evidence against this? They have financial independence, and now they are finding meaningful work. I agree that we need a sense of purpose for happiness/mental health, but why does that have to be "working for the man?".

Why is "working for the man" so bad when it gives purpose in your life? The article showed how unsatisfied his wife was when she felt as "not going anywhere", I think she was trying to say that she does not feel any sort of progress or growth on any level. As it is torture to keep someone in a room with no stimulation, it is the same with repetition and no change or progress. “Industry, thrift and self-control are no…

sure there are some people that get meaning from work, and who would have trouble finding meaning outside of work. But I can't agree that 'working for the man' and doing whatever you can do to get by is the best recipe for finding the most meaningful work for most people.

In some cases "working for the man" isn't bad and it does give people purpose, but in (imo)the majority of cases, it is bad because it prevents you from using your time to do something you actually find meaningful.

I think the few people who are able to find meaning in their jobs are either extremely lucky to have found what they want to do, had the opportunity to pursue it and succeed, and make a decent enough living doing it without the money aspect killing their joy - or they're the type of people who have just 'over-assimilated' to modern life and found a way to extract meaning from their work, but these people would probably be able to find at least as much meaning and happiness in something else if they grew up in a world where working wasn't expected to be almost your entire life.