Earlier quoted context omitted.
If Florida was its own country they would all be dead by now. Given that we know they falsified their numbers how can we draw any conclusions from them?
What an illogical thing to say. Florida is its own state - are they all dead? No. And I have no good reason to suspect that Florida or Texas or etc are actually fudging their numbers to hide a negative trend. Too conspiratorial for me to just believe that.
Pfizer and Moderna vaccines may produce lasting immunity
261–270 of 364 posts
Re: Pfizer and Moderna vaccines may produce lasting immunity
#262Earlier quoted context omitted.
> There's no denying it's a proxy for political positions What does that mean? Vaccination is not a political position in most other countries - it's just a policy goal at a national level. The goal would be to give local governments and businesses an approved way to understand who has received the vaccine so they could open up safely.
Again, what is the effect of a covid-unvaccinated person entering a room full of covid-vaccinated people? We need clarity on that message. Some people just aren't motivated by fear or shame, and so for a universal campaign to succeed, we need to appeal to those peoples' sense of reason.
you'd have to argue about what is the right question to ask first, i'm afraid. that might be a difficult discussion if vaccines are a religious/political topic (i.e. emotional and belief-based instead of skeptical logic).
Re: Pfizer and Moderna vaccines may produce lasting immunity
#263Earlier quoted context omitted.
> If there was any kind of wide-spread problem, it would have been loudly seen by now and those vaccines would have also been pulled. There has not been. Yes, if it was a wide-spread problem. The side-effect that killed AstraZeneca wasn't widespread, it was extremely rare, and it was caught because it was such an unlikely combination of symptoms. Yet, this extremely rare side-effect was enough to make the vaccine mor…
In most cases it goes away on it's own or people don't even know they got it.. That doesn't seem all that scary.
> In most cases it goes away on it's own or people don't even know they got it.. That doesn't seem all that scary.
...like COVID in young people?
It's true that Myocarditis often goes unnoticed and undiagnosed. That's what makes it dangerous. It's a leading cause of cardiac arrest in young people. If you actually do get diagnosed with Myocarditis, it's not necessarily a mild case. That's what makes me suspect the cases being reported now are just the tip of the ice berg.
Re: Pfizer and Moderna vaccines may produce lasting immunity
#264Earlier quoted context omitted.
Could you apply this same argument to taxes/SSNs, drivers licenses[+], and other existing centralized systems in the US? +: Let's be honest, driver's licenses are practically required and you attract extra scrutiny if you don't have one.
None of these violate your bodily autonomy.
can i sue you if i catch covid from you for violating my autonomy? only half joking.
Re: Pfizer and Moderna vaccines may produce lasting immunity
#265Earlier quoted context omitted.
Every American is in a whole myriad of government databases form the federal level on down. Pretending otherwise, or pretending that the next database will be the one to break individualism and lead to autocracy, is just magical thinking.
>Every American is in a whole myriad of government databases form the federal level on down... The park might be full of needles but that's no justification for further litter. Why do we need yet another database? People have enough problems with the no fly list and that's a short list. A DB that has 1/3 of the country flagged would cause mayhem from false positives and inconsistent data.
I'm not supporting any new database, just pointing out that if our goal is to prevent centralized government databases of Americans, that ship has already sailed... around the world several times over.
Re: Pfizer and Moderna vaccines may produce lasting immunity
#266Earlier quoted context omitted.
Large events outside of New York have not had any such vaccine mandates, and have not led to any outbreaks. By the numbers, New York has handled the pandemic worse than any state in the US. I'm not sure we should be holding up any of the measures they've taken or are currently taking as any sort of holy grail.
There is a clear cultural schism on this. When in Arizona, I went to a rodeo that wouldn’t dare check vaccination after a museum fundraiser that required it but didn’t verify. As someone who would like to go to both types of events, a single document would be helpful. If others prefer to constrain themselves, that’s fine. We are discussing privileges, not rights.
I'm confused. You went from talking about events in NY that verify vaccination to events that do not. My point is that the draconian verifications that you talk about in NY have not been proven to increase safety in any meaningful way.
If we're going to create two separate classes of people, one of which does not enjoy the same freedoms and abilities as the other, I think there needs to be actual data to back it up instead of it just "feeling like" it's the safer thing to do.
Re: Pfizer and Moderna vaccines may produce lasting immunity
#267Earlier quoted context omitted.
There's no basis to believe at this point that we'll need "booster shots" of any kind with COVID vaccination, and in fact the opposite seems to be the case, so this comment is being downvoted for spreading misinformation (amusingly, this specific comment will probably be disliked by both vaccination proponents and disease proponents :) The reason we won't need yearly vaccinations as with the flu shots isn't a propert…
How do I reconcile this with the existence of, say, Moderna booster? https://investors.modernatx.com/news-releases/news-release-d... (Genuine question.)
We really don't know yet if (and when) a booster shot would be needed, and if we would need an extra shot of the same vaccine (to help with immune escape) or a tweaked version (for resistant variants). So far research suggests that we're good, but this isn't something that's set in stone.
If you're a vaccine maker, it's a good idea to have something ready if it turns out that a booster is needed. If you're in charge of public health, it's a good idea to plan for that possibility. That doesn't make it the plan yet.
Also note that you're looking at a press release. Scientific press releases take the information from the article, summarize it by giving the main achievement, removing any caveats, and otherwise presenting it in the best possible light possible. There are press releases like that for vaccines that were later shown to be ineffective, because at that point they were promising.
Re: Pfizer and Moderna vaccines may produce lasting immunity
#268Earlier quoted context omitted.
Large events outside of New York have not had any such vaccine mandates, and have not led to any outbreaks. By the numbers, New York has handled the pandemic worse than any state in the US. I'm not sure we should be holding up any of the measures they've taken or are currently taking as any sort of holy grail.
There is a clear cultural schism on this. When in Arizona, I went to a rodeo that wouldn’t dare check vaccination after a museum fundraiser that required it but didn’t verify. As someone who would like to go to both types of events, a single document would be helpful. If others prefer to constrain themselves, that’s fine. We are discussing privileges, not rights.
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Re: Pfizer and Moderna vaccines may produce lasting immunity
#269Earlier quoted context omitted.
Just to clarify - that is false. It is generally advisable to get Moderna/Pfizer if they're available and you're a young woman but the chance of mortal thrombosis is around 5 per one million. The EU recommends getting AZ over not receiving a vaccine if that is the only option available to you[1] - though at this point there should be a sufficient supply of alternatives. 1. https://www.ema.europa.eu/en/news/covid-19-v…
> Just to clarify - that is false. It isn't false, though the blanket "it was banned" statement lacks context: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oxford%E2%80%93AstraZeneca_COV... > It is generally advisable to get Moderna/Pfizer if they're available and you're a young woman but the chance of mortal thrombosis is around 5 per one million. No, the risk for anyone to develop a lethal thrombosis is roughly 5 per million. The…
Again, that is false.
It's not even close, for women age 20-29 the risk of fatal thrombosis is 1:250k, while Covid is somewhere around 1:25k [1]. That's a whole order of magnitude.
The risk/benefit ratio of AZ vaccine is only poor when the risk of exposure is very low [2].
[1] https://www.nature.com/articles/s41586-020-2918-0/figures/2
[2] https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/...
Re: Pfizer and Moderna vaccines may produce lasting immunity
#270Earlier quoted context omitted.
SARS-CoV1 didn't have a pool of 8 billion people to mutate in. It'll get less deadly as time goes by giving fuel to the 'it's just a flu' crowd, killing millions in the meantime and potentially mutating beyond the scope of currently attained immunity, god forbid.
There it’s just a flu crowd are the same people who call every little sniffle they get “the flu“. I’ve had the flu and I was out of it. I couldn’t even make it to the bathroom on my own.
the 'it's just the flu' crowd probably doesn't realize how many people actually die from flu complications, but then, i wouldn't expect them to, unfortunately. perception of freedom trumps science for them.