Fewer young men are in the labor force, more are living at home • Hacker News Board

Re: Fewer young men are in the labor force, more are living at home

#261

Post by WalterBright » Fri, Jun 11, 2021, 9:33 PM UTC

gonehome wrote: post #220

andrewmcwatters wrote: post #7

I see this on the fringes of those within my circle of friends. I know one man in this age cohort who doesn't seem to have a job, just plays video games all the time, and I don't get it. But one thing I think about is what he has been exposed to: this is what he knows. I don't think this individual I'm speaking of was raised with anything differently. In this same light, as I believe the two concepts are directly rel…

Videogames provide fake achievement and an easy thing to do to occupy you - I think some people are more vulnerable to this kind of thing than others. For me, the fake achievement feels fake and I don't get much satisfaction out of it - but for others I think it mimics real achievement enough that they can pour hours into it. Online dating sucks for most men - if you're not in the top 2% of attractiveness for men it…

> fake achievement

Nothing exposes that more than writing video games yourself, as well as having a job testing them.

    10 print "Walter is Great!"
    20 goto 10

There ya go. That's all video games are.

The fake courtesy of software irks me, too.

Re: Fewer young men are in the labor force, more are living at home

#262

Post by amin » Fri, Jun 11, 2021, 9:33 PM UTC

UncleOxidant wrote: post #113

I've got two nephews aged 34 and 32 who still live at home and play video games all the time and rarely leave their rooms. Neither has ever had a job that lasted more than a month or so. Neither ever learned to drive even though they live in a town with little or no public transit. They haven't had any education beyond high school. They seem wholly unprepared to navigate life without their parents. It's a slow motion…

Did they grow up with their biological father?

Re: Fewer young men are in the labor force, more are living at home

#263

Post by david-gpu » Fri, Jun 11, 2021, 9:33 PM UTC

hardwaregeek wrote: post #223

Video game addiction is a real problem. I spent my freshman year of college rooming with man-children who played video games non-stop. They didn't explore the city, they didn't meet new people, they just played video games in the dark, screaming into their headsets and eating their takeout at their desk. People can certainly have a healthy, fruitful relationship to video games but since then I haven't felt the need t…

Not a psychologist, but I would guess that playing games at all times is more a symptom than a cause. A symptom of depression? A coping mechanism for chronic anxiety? A happy well adjusted person does not try so hard to escape reality or responsibilities.

Demeaning them by calling them man-children is not going to help them in the slightest.

Re: Fewer young men are in the labor force, more are living at home

#264

Post by extrapickles » Fri, Jun 11, 2021, 9:33 PM UTC

CameronNemo wrote: post #146

AnIdiotOnTheNet wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have an idea I've been toying with for a dating tool (I refuse to call it an app) based on the premise that all dating "apps" and "sites" are horrible because their incentives are aligned toward wanting people to actually use them. You pretty much have ad-driven and subscription models and both have perverse incentives. Further, the whole "wink", "like" and "swipe" nonsense increases the "meat market" commoditizati…

I've thought about ways to improve dating networks, and I think the best solution is to throw them out and just get young people to go out in groups and do activities together. Romance would be a secondary output (as would friendships, professional networking, and plain old perspective broadening). Rationale is that a lot of women, and to a lesser degree men, do not feel comfortable going out 1x1 with a stranger (and…

That would also fix the incentive problem dating sites have to make sure you only find low quality matches so you will stay on the platform.

Re: Fewer young men are in the labor force, more are living at home

#265

Post by supertrope » Fri, Jun 11, 2021, 9:34 PM UTC

MyHypatia wrote: post #20

andrewmcwatters wrote: post #7

I see this on the fringes of those within my circle of friends. I know one man in this age cohort who doesn't seem to have a job, just plays video games all the time, and I don't get it. But one thing I think about is what he has been exposed to: this is what he knows. I don't think this individual I'm speaking of was raised with anything differently. In this same light, as I believe the two concepts are directly rel…

I see this too. One thing that has struck me lately, is the similarity between the addictive nature of gambling and video games. Going to a casino once in a while or playing some video games with friends is fine. But the amount of time some people spend on video games really mimics a gambling addiction, except it's less frowned upon because they're mostly losing time instead of money. But if you consider the opportun…

In American culture money and materialism is dominant. Labor, quality of life, and time are devalued. People complain that a plumber “didn’t do anything” and then billed $170. Or an ER physician didn’t do anything yet they still got a $$$$ bill. Expertise, attention, and simply showing up to get the job done doesn’t seem to have fundamental value in common culture. But if they received a prescription, or an MRI was used, or some parts were installed there’s more appreciation.

Re: Fewer young men are in the labor force, more are living at home

#266

Post by sgt » Fri, Jun 11, 2021, 9:34 PM UTC

paulddraper wrote: post #205

UncleOxidant wrote: post #113

I've got two nephews aged 34 and 32 who still live at home and play video games all the time and rarely leave their rooms. Neither has ever had a job that lasted more than a month or so. Neither ever learned to drive even though they live in a town with little or no public transit. They haven't had any education beyond high school. They seem wholly unprepared to navigate life without their parents. It's a slow motion…

In Tacoma, I lived nextdoor to a guy who "hurt his back" when he was 22. As far as I can tell, he'll sit on his couch collecting disability until 65, at which point he'll switch to retirement.

Sitting on a couch for the next 40 years is also not going to do wonders for his back.

Re: Fewer young men are in the labor force, more are living at home

#267

Post by cjohnson318 » Fri, Jun 11, 2021, 9:34 PM UTC

kogepathic wrote: post #17

andrewmcwatters wrote: post #7

I see this on the fringes of those within my circle of friends. I know one man in this age cohort who doesn't seem to have a job, just plays video games all the time, and I don't get it. But one thing I think about is what he has been exposed to: this is what he knows. I don't think this individual I'm speaking of was raised with anything differently. In this same light, as I believe the two concepts are directly rel…

> another friend of mine basically refuses to date anymore because he thinks the sort of culture of Tinder dating is a waste of time that favors women disproportionately. My female friends (I'm male) with online dating profiles have shown me their matches and conversations, and it's bleak. They all mostly have an average profile and still receive thousands of likes/hearts/swipes and messages, but the mean amount of e…

Ditto. I met my wife on OkCupid. She said I was the only guy that messaged her with multiple, complete sentences.

Re: Fewer young men are in the labor force, more are living at home

#268

Post by avs733 » Fri, Jun 11, 2021, 9:35 PM UTC

UncleOxidant wrote: post #113

I've got two nephews aged 34 and 32 who still live at home and play video games all the time and rarely leave their rooms. Neither has ever had a job that lasted more than a month or so. Neither ever learned to drive even though they live in a town with little or no public transit. They haven't had any education beyond high school. They seem wholly unprepared to navigate life without their parents. It's a slow motion…

I appreciate the frustration, and why this got shared, but realistically...this is the current observation and gives so little data about how we got here that I worry about the comments attributing blame to your post.

Two distant family members of mine fit this description fairly well...One was raised in an unstable, low income household, with mentally ill parents, is on the autism spectrum, and both parents worked multiple jobs that included overnight shifts. There was no ability, energy, or understanding to seek assistance and intervention early enough to make a difference. The other family member comes from effectively the complete opposite end of each one of those variables.

Re: Fewer young men are in the labor force, more are living at home

#269

Post by belorn » Fri, Jun 11, 2021, 9:35 PM UTC

What are the things that motivates them, and what do they themselves want to do in life?

I ask this because much of the undertone in the article and in this thread is about the failure of meeting the gender role expectations that are put on young men. Do they have a job and a car? Have they studied hard so they can get a good job in order to support a wife and kid?

Culture in the last several decades have hammered down on the negative aspects of stereotyping. A person who is 35 has gone through a life time of TV, movie and politics that on repeat has talked about the negative of gender roles for women, while the expectations on men has remained fairly unchanged. I do not find it strange at all if an increasing portion of men under this culture has rejected the role put on them.

Which goes back to the original question I started with. What motivates them and what do they want to do with their life? If we want to avoid the slow motion tragedy, maybe the way forward is to help them answer those question in the absent of imposed gender roles.

Re: Fewer young men are in the labor force, more are living at home

#270

Post by yaacov » Fri, Jun 11, 2021, 9:36 PM UTC

grogenaut wrote: post #151

I'm trying to get my son and his girlfriend to live at home for a few years post graduation. He wants to move out into a place in seattle. She's a bit more about saving money. The math is that they'd have all loans paid off and a 200k down payment about 4 years out of college if they live with us, and they'd have loans paid off if in 4 years and Important side note: they're both major home bodies so they wouldn't tak…

They should be able to find a nice 1br in Seattle for 20-25k/yr. Even in the most expensive neighborhoods it shouldn’t be more than 30k. Your numbers are higher than I’d expect