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Evaluating necessity of Covid-19 vaccination in previously infected individuals

medrxiv.org

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Re: Evaluating necessity of Covid-19 vaccination in previously infected individuals

#261

Post by nicioan »

SkyPuncher wrote: post #127
briefcomment wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most authorities are downplaying natural immunity, despite evidence like this. The more widely this spreads, the more people will realize it's ok to rely on natural immunity, and to not blanket demonize those who are unvaccinated.

> to not blanket demonize those who are unvaccinated. Well, I'm currently in quarantine from my 4 month old and wife because an acquaintance refused to get vaccinated. "young people don't die from COVID" type mentality. I attended my brother's bachelor party - of which we all thought everyone was vaccinated. Turns out this person, not only refused to get vaccinated - but had COVID exposure and still decided to attend…

100% this. It's not only about oneself. For young and healthy people, vaccination is primarily for helping and protecting others.

Re: Evaluating necessity of Covid-19 vaccination in previously infected individuals

#262

Post by sgt101 »

johnchristopher wrote: post #251
whoknowswhat11 wrote: post #204

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No kidding. It's clear to me that protection at some level is provided following infection - which simply makes sense. You'll notice they say - we don't have enough data. Then data is incomplete. Then we can't really say because study was X / Y / Z. They ignore the MASSIVE difference in your chance of being infected if you are unvaccinated and have not been infected vs many other combos. Just treat folks who've been…

I'd like to know the death rate of infected unvaccinated people who get covid again against vaccinated people who get covid and get sick.

According to this study it could be a long time before we know that - I think cov-19 in the presence of a non overwhelmed medical system armed with steroids and oxygen kills less than 2/100 infected folk so getting enough incidents in either of those arms of a trial is going to be hard work.

Re: Evaluating necessity of Covid-19 vaccination in previously infected individuals

#263

Post by murgindrag »

johnchristopher wrote: post #251
whoknowswhat11 wrote: post #204

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No kidding. It's clear to me that protection at some level is provided following infection - which simply makes sense. You'll notice they say - we don't have enough data. Then data is incomplete. Then we can't really say because study was X / Y / Z. They ignore the MASSIVE difference in your chance of being infected if you are unvaccinated and have not been infected vs many other combos. Just treat folks who've been…

I'd like to know the death rate of infected unvaccinated people who get covid again against vaccinated people who get covid and get sick.

I'd like to know the disability rate, which seems much higher than the death rate.

Re: Evaluating necessity of Covid-19 vaccination in previously infected individuals

#264

Post by occamrazor »

phkahler wrote: post #101
spion wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I know that seems like a large number but in the vaccine arm there were 20x more subjects and only 15 cases. So with the 1359 previously infected subjects, assuming identical behavior to vaccinated subjects, we would expect around 0.9 cases if vaccines were approximately equal to infection. So this study doesn't have enough statistical power to say how vaccines compare to previous infection. Could be better, could be…

>> So this study doesn't have enough statistical power to say how vaccines compare to previous infection. Could be better, could be up to 3 times worse within a high confidence interval. Could be. But it would be great if they'd just say having had a confirmed case is equivalent to getting the vaccine because several studies have now shown that to be roughly the case. It's also conventional medical wisdom although it…

The rough consensus is that an infection is equivalent to a single dose of vaccine. Some countries do not give the second dose to previously infected people.

Re: Evaluating necessity of Covid-19 vaccination in previously infected individuals

#266

Post by iso1210 »

sgt101 wrote: post #262
johnchristopher wrote: post #251

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd like to know the death rate of infected unvaccinated people who get covid again against vaccinated people who get covid and get sick.

According to this study it could be a long time before we know that - I think cov-19 in the presence of a non overwhelmed medical system armed with steroids and oxygen kills less than 2/100 infected folk so getting enough incidents in either of those arms of a trial is going to be hard work.

The death rate for certain demographics (especially say over 70s) is far higher than 2-in-100. While some countries have high levels of vaccination - especially in those demographics - most don't.

The UK is enterring a third wave, and has a high number of elderly people having been fully (2 shot, mainly AZ) vaccinated. Early indications are that those enterring hospitals now on the whole have not been fully vaccinated.

Re: Evaluating necessity of Covid-19 vaccination in previously infected individuals

#267

Post by iso1210 »

thombat wrote: post #253
falcor84 wrote: post #244

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>...with the British strain now being the main one in Sweden Off topic, but at this stage I find this geographical naming of strains being much more confusing than useful.

Recently greek letters were introduced to remove the geographic stigma [1] , so that would read as "the Alpha strain now being the main one in Sweden" Besides risking moral overtones ("the British strain? Typical - when they aren't being Hollywood baddies they're busy incubating viruses") it only tagged where a strain was first isolated, not necessarily its geographic origin (not that it actually matters whether the…

It's quite amusing that there was such a push at the start of the pandemic to not call it Chinese Flu or Wuhan Flu, but the British, South Africa, India and Brazil strains all caught on quickly in the media.

Re: Evaluating necessity of Covid-19 vaccination in previously infected individuals

#268

Post by rayiner »

tptacek wrote: post #201
rayiner wrote: post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It rarely results in death. Even men 65-75 have a only a 3% chance of dying if they get covid. To put that into perspective, according to the mortality tables, those people have a 1.5-3.5% chance of dying in a given year even under normal circumstances.

Polio has a death rate in the mid single digits, too.

For children and middle aged adults as well, not just people over 65. That and the permanent deformity and paralysis are a big difference.

Re: Evaluating necessity of Covid-19 vaccination in previously infected individuals

#269

Post by iso1210 »

photon-torpedo wrote: post #220
waterside81 wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hey I'm curious, if you don't mind sharing, how do you think you got it? Throughout this whole pandemic, I'm still kind of amazed how people are getting it

Had avoided Covid all 2020, but in February I needed to go to hospital for unrelated reasons -- needed urgent treatment, otherwise potentially life-threatening, had to stay several days. Had three negative Covid tests during the stay, but the fourth came back positive, just a day before my discharge. So I'm pretty sure I caught it inside the hospital. :(

My dad stayed isolated throughout 2020. He had the AZ vaccine in January. About 10 days later a blood clot to the brain caused a seizure and he went into hospital. He was tested when he went in and was not infected, he was kept fairly isolated in hospital for a couple of weeks, obviously no visitors.

We had a late night call saying he was unlikely to last the night, so we were allowed in to see him.

The next morning we were waiting for the phone call. And we had one. From Test and Fucking Trace, who wanted to speak to him. They were insistent he wasn't in hospital so we hung up on them with a rather non-polite scream.

His swab (which was from before we saw him) came back and he was positive, so we had to isolate. He did last the night, and then was moved to a covid ward.

So he clearly caught it in hospital on a non-covid ward. While I was holding his hand a nurse came along to give him an injection. She had a mask on, over her mouth - not her nose. Clearly lots of unconcious people who had frequent negative tests and weren't moving around a ward aren't going to be spreading covid, the only close contacts were the medical staff.

As it happens he lasted another 3 weeks before he came home for palative care. The vaccine presumably helped with fighting covid, but the damage caused by the siezures meant he couldn't even swallow.

He died 29 days after the positive test, so didn't go on the T+28 day stats.

Re: Evaluating necessity of Covid-19 vaccination in previously infected individuals

#270

Post by astrange »

murgindrag wrote: post #263
johnchristopher wrote: post #251

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd like to know the death rate of infected unvaccinated people who get covid again against vaccinated people who get covid and get sick.

I'd like to know the disability rate, which seems much higher than the death rate.

Yes, this and "long COVID" are quite underreported, and it's the much bigger risk. However, there is some evidence that getting vaccinated improves/cures long COVID.
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