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Australian Federal Police and FBI nab underworld figures using encrypted app

abc.net.au

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Re: Australian Federal Police and FBI nab underworld figures using encrypted app

#261

Post by LeFever »

AlexCoventry wrote: post #253

I'm curious how this works constitutionally, in the US. Presumably the FBI did not have warrants for all the conversations they were listening in on, so it at least superficially seems like a fourth amendment violation.

They’re claiming not to have analyzed comms in the US:

> "This data comprises the encrypted messages of all of the users of Anoms with a few exceptions (e.g., the messages of approximately 15 Anom users in the U.S. sent to any other Anom device are not reviewed by the FBI)," the document reads.

From From https://www.vice.com/en/article/akgkwj/operation-trojan-shie...

Re: Australian Federal Police and FBI nab underworld figures using encrypted app

#262

Post by AlexCoventry »

LeFever wrote: post #261
AlexCoventry wrote: post #253

I'm curious how this works constitutionally, in the US. Presumably the FBI did not have warrants for all the conversations they were listening in on, so it at least superficially seems like a fourth amendment violation.

They’re claiming not to have analyzed comms in the US: > "This data comprises the encrypted messages of all of the users of Anoms with a few exceptions (e.g., the messages of approximately 15 Anom users in the U.S. sent to any other Anom device are not reviewed by the FBI)," the document reads. From From https://www.vice.com/en/article/akgkwj/operation-trojan-shie...

Thanks.

Re: Australian Federal Police and FBI nab underworld figures using encrypted app

#263

Post by x86_64Ubuntu »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #236
x86_64Ubuntu wrote: post #230

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Russia and China would in fact be a better solution as most Westerners are never going to be subject to Russian or Chinese authorities.

> most Westerners are never going to be subject to Russian or Chinese authorities Coercible locals are a valuable asset. Not sure why countries with zero rule of law would be attractive to someone valuing a principle like privacy.

I'm not sure what you are trying to say, especially with the "coerciable locals", other than trying to say China and Russia have "zero rule of law".

Re: Australian Federal Police and FBI nab underworld figures using encrypted app

#264

Post by hansor »

RachelF wrote: post #37
flashman wrote: post #31

As to how the FBI got access to the messages, Vice says[1] after Vincent Ramos of Phantom Secure was arrested in 2018, a confidential human source offered Anom, which the source was developing, to the FBI (probably in exchange for immunity or a reduced sentence, in my opinion). The source then seeded Anom phones to his existing distributors as a replacement for Phantom Secure phones, and from their they made their wa…

Makes you wonder how many commercial VPN services are just FBI honeypots?

Very plausible. A lot of "western" VPNs are run by Chinese companies.

https://www.computerweekly.com/news/252466203/Top-VPNs-secre...

Re: Australian Federal Police and FBI nab underworld figures using encrypted app

#265

Post by acoard »

x86_64Ubuntu wrote: post #263
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #236

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> most Westerners are never going to be subject to Russian or Chinese authorities Coercible locals are a valuable asset. Not sure why countries with zero rule of law would be attractive to someone valuing a principle like privacy.

I'm not sure what you are trying to say, especially with the "coerciable locals", other than trying to say China and Russia have "zero rule of law".

His point is that foreign states could blackmail you or exert pressure in other ways, even if they aren't gonna extradite and throw you in jail following due process. Thus, Russia/China would have "coercible locals" in western countries.

Re: Australian Federal Police and FBI nab underworld figures using encrypted app

#266

Post by tantalor »

brainwad wrote: post #260
tantalor wrote: post #255

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Could the OS lock down the app's permissions to prevent that? Like, this app can ONLY send/recv e2e encrypted messages, and not log anything or talk to other apps.

The app could still send your keys _as_ an e2e message (to the app author). OS enforcement would need to be pretty intrusive to stop this (e.g. a pop-up for every message sent, displaying the actual destination of the message). I bet users would get pretty blind to such pop-ups, and it would be easy to trick them into accepting the leaking of their private keys.

Yeah good point, for that matter you need to trust the app isn't cc'ing the FBI on every message you send.

Re: Australian Federal Police and FBI nab underworld figures using encrypted app

#267

Post by bagacrap »

janmo wrote: post #191

I think this is very problematic. Let's say police claims you did something with only the chat log as an evidence and they run the chat software. Then they could very well have just faked it, because they have a high incentive to do so. If the messages were on a third party platform you would at least have a neutral third party involved.

I don't think it will hold up in court if the only evidence is chat logs. After all, it's basically impossible to prove who was holding the phone when a message was sent. But this should be enough information to make arrests and collect additional evidence, e.g. a stash of illegal firearms.

Re: Australian Federal Police and FBI nab underworld figures using encrypted app

#268

Post by csunbird »

yawaworht1978 wrote: post #181
stef25 wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So they got to this most wanted man and instead of arresting him they fed him an app to help catch all his buddies while at the same time put a target on his back? Pretty daring move.

I don't think that was the story.he fled to Cyprus and escaped prison there. Someone somehow got him to believe the app is safe, he took kickbacks for the distribution, even. My main question is, how is this man living free in Turkey despite there being an interpol warrant?

If he is living in the Turkish Republic of Northern Cyprus, which is actually a different country than Turkey and not recognized by other countries, it would be nearly impossible to extradite him without Turkey's cooperation.

I doubt that Turkey would extradite her own citizen as well.

Re: Australian Federal Police and FBI nab underworld figures using encrypted app

#269

Post by neither_color »

i386 wrote: post #258
Tabular-Iceberg wrote: post #180

This seems to be just a messaging app, but is there a market for more full-featured ERP, CRM and project management software for criminal enterprises? I'm sure they would benefit from those just the same way legitimate enterprises do. The only difference is that they do more illegal stuff and use more violence, but the fundamental business dynamics should be the same.

What the fuck is wrong with you.

I think this comment is unnecessarily hostile. OP is not offering to build services; he's just asking. It's a valid question. Did you know ISIS had what amounts to an "HR department" ?

https://en.zamanalwsl.net/news/article/23994/

Re: Australian Federal Police and FBI nab underworld figures using encrypted app

#270

Post by standardUser »

JulianMorrison wrote: post #173
jliptzin wrote: post #150

I wonder how much crime would be left if the drug trade were legalized

Depends if the legal version ends up really expensive, compare cigarettes which are still smuggled because of the sin taxes.

The fact that a small black market will still exist does not negate the argument that legalizing drugs would end the gargantuan black market that currently exists, and most of the ills that come along with it.
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