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Temptation of the Apple: Dolphin on macOS M1

dolphin-emu.org

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Re: Temptation of the Apple: Dolphin on macOS M1

#261

Post by fauigerzigerk »

fouric wrote: post #234
fauigerzigerk wrote: post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you're right when it comes to security, but in order for that to work Apple would have to admit that checking apps for security issues is not inseparable from imposing rules that are supposed to benefit their own business model. That said, here's a challenge for everybody (including myself) who doesn't like Apple's app store monopoly and side-loading ban: Apple now requires apps to ask for permission before t…

> How would you prevent this from happening? Very simply - enforce security permissions at the OS level, rather than the app store level. There's no technical reason an app store also has to handle permissions. Leave the discoverability/reviews/curation functionality in the app store, and then just move the app installation functionality into the OS - the app store delivers an app package which the OS accepts, parses…

I don't think it's that simple, and relegating the main issue to a bracketed footnote doesn't make it so.

I agree with you that permissions and a sandbox that actually works would have to be part of any solution.

But you can rest assured that Facebook wouldn't have made such a fuss if all that was at stake is losing access to IDFA and getting slapped with some unenforceable privacy warning.

What's creating a real problem for Facebook is the enforceable legal obligation that Apple has put in place as a precondition for being allowed on iOS devices at all.

It works exactly because it is not a technology based solution. It has created a choice that we didn't previously have.

So I wonder how we can keep this choice without making Apple this all powerful, rent seeking, patronising overlord that also happens to be an ideal attack vector for censorship happy authoritarian governments all over the world.

Re: Temptation of the Apple: Dolphin on macOS M1

#262

Post by massysett »

temac wrote: post #255
gjsman-1000 wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Like everything in technology, you have a choice. If you want openness at the expense of security and privacy, you can purchase an Android or Windows device. If you want security and privacy more than openness, you buy an iPhone. The Hacker News crowd is unique in that we want to have our cake and eat it too by making the iPhone work more like Android and expressing outrage that such a choice exists. So even though I…

I don't understand why anybody would consider to be at risk if an alternate store, that nobody would be forced to use, and which could even be subject to identical or even better rules, exists. And I'm not even talking about transforming an iPhone into a potentially open computer, but here too the same principle can be applied: if it is optional, it is something more, not less. The UX can be made good enough to actua…

Options drive up support costs for Apple and for carriers, with no corresponding benefit for people who were uninterested in these options.

Re: Temptation of the Apple: Dolphin on macOS M1

#263

Post by wffurr »

Wowfunhappy wrote: post #215
wffurr wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is an opt-in developer mode on iOS. You can compile and install any software you want on your own iPad; no paid Apple developer account needed. There’s even a way to get W^X memory regions on iOS by abusing ptrace: https://saagarjha.com/blog/2020/02/23/jailed-just-in-time-co... It can’t be submitted to the App Store or deployed with TestFlight, but you can build and install an app using that hack just fine on y…

The apps you install expire after a week. You need to reconnect your device to a computer at least once every seven days and reinstall the custom app. Also, you're limited to three apps at a time. It's not actually usable for anything. It's also a completely arbitrary and needlessly-punitive restriction—if I've opted in to installing custom software, why limit me to three apps at a time, and why make them only last a…

https://altstore.io/faq/ is a pretty comprehensive way to make this actually work.

Re: Temptation of the Apple: Dolphin on macOS M1

#264

Post by robenkleene »

sillysaurusx wrote: post #252
robenkleene wrote: post #237

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here’s the relevant rule ( https://developer.apple.com/app-store/review/guidelines/#2.5... ): > Apps should be self-contained in their bundles, and may not read or write data outside the designated container area, nor may they download, install, or execute code which introduces or changes features or functionality of the app, including other apps. Educational apps designed to teach, develop, or allow students to test…

There are many, many apps that ship bug fixes with no app store review process via React Native. It loads code from a server each time you run it. And to my knowledge, Apple never has a problem with that as long as the app doesn't change functionality. Any functional change must be reviewed; everything else is allowed. I agree with you that the rule sounds specific, and I'm not sure how to reconcile that with the fac…

My understanding is that hot reloading via React Native is explicitly forbidden by the App Store rules (i.e., you're never supposed to download JavaScript and run it in JavaScriptCore).

I think what you're describing is simply that the App Store rules are selectively enforced.

Re: Temptation of the Apple: Dolphin on macOS M1

#265

Post by Vvector »

temac wrote: post #255
gjsman-1000 wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Like everything in technology, you have a choice. If you want openness at the expense of security and privacy, you can purchase an Android or Windows device. If you want security and privacy more than openness, you buy an iPhone. The Hacker News crowd is unique in that we want to have our cake and eat it too by making the iPhone work more like Android and expressing outrage that such a choice exists. So even though I…

I don't understand why anybody would consider to be at risk if an alternate store, that nobody would be forced to use, and which could even be subject to identical or even better rules, exists. And I'm not even talking about transforming an iPhone into a potentially open computer, but here too the same principle can be applied: if it is optional, it is something more, not less. The UX can be made good enough to actua…

An alternate app store would be a risk for tricking people to download and install all kinds of malware.

"Your iPhone is out of date. Tap here to install the latest security tools to stop hackers from stealing your bank account"

Re: Temptation of the Apple: Dolphin on macOS M1

#266

Post by neetdeth »

radicaldreamer wrote: post #240
r00fus wrote: post #227

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Facebook has in the past asked users to deploy their Onavo app using this mechanism for their privacy invading VPN (2015-ish).

I thought they used an enterprise certificate? Those are still available and easily can be used to distribute software without Apple review (but perhaps not for companies as high-profile as Facebook)

They are no longer easily available - presumably as a direct result of the Facebook incident. I'm sure there are companies still grandfathered in, but as a new entrant you'll be aggressively shunted toward either the B2B or consumer App Stores.

Re: Temptation of the Apple: Dolphin on macOS M1

#267

Post by PandawanFr »

temac wrote: post #255
gjsman-1000 wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Like everything in technology, you have a choice. If you want openness at the expense of security and privacy, you can purchase an Android or Windows device. If you want security and privacy more than openness, you buy an iPhone. The Hacker News crowd is unique in that we want to have our cake and eat it too by making the iPhone work more like Android and expressing outrage that such a choice exists. So even though I…

I don't understand why anybody would consider to be at risk if an alternate store, that nobody would be forced to use, and which could even be subject to identical or even better rules, exists. And I'm not even talking about transforming an iPhone into a potentially open computer, but here too the same principle can be applied: if it is optional, it is something more, not less. The UX can be made good enough to actua…

The issue is other factors may force you to use an alternate store. My college uses Proctorio for online test-taking. I am required to use this for the class. The issue is, the extension is only available for Chrome (I've tried other Chromium browsers and those don't seem to work as well). As a Firefox user, I don't really like having to switch to Chrome just to use an app that I never wanted to use but am forced to.

The same could apply with app stores—if a company, school, or other requires that you use an app that is only available on a less privacy-friendly or perhaps more intrusive app store, that doesn't sound like an optional/risk-free alternative to me. Once you open the walls there's no going back.

Re: Temptation of the Apple: Dolphin on macOS M1

#268

Post by temac »

PandawanFr wrote: post #267
temac wrote: post #255

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't understand why anybody would consider to be at risk if an alternate store, that nobody would be forced to use, and which could even be subject to identical or even better rules, exists. And I'm not even talking about transforming an iPhone into a potentially open computer, but here too the same principle can be applied: if it is optional, it is something more, not less. The UX can be made good enough to actua…

The issue is other factors may force you to use an alternate store. My college uses Proctorio for online test-taking. I am required to use this for the class. The issue is, the extension is only available for Chrome (I've tried other Chromium browsers and those don't seem to work as well). As a Firefox user, I don't really like having to switch to Chrome just to use an app that I never wanted to use but am forced to.…

Maybe Apple could display a prominent warning that this may put your personal data at risk, if you choose to enable alternate stores, and remind that regularly (including during each boot, when using the apple store, etc.), giving leverage for users who actually do not want that to refuse forced installations by third parties.

Re: Temptation of the Apple: Dolphin on macOS M1

#269

Post by mengineer »

jeroenhd wrote: post #24

It's clear AS is a great advancement in general computing, but every piece like this reads as "the hardware is amazing, and it's totally worth it to work around these arbitrary software restrictions". This performance would've been available on iPads years ago if it wasn't for Apple's blanket ban on JIT and the likes. Apple is one of those companies whose hardware I'd love to have if it wasn't for their software and…

Given the 1 and 2nm transistors, this minor increase in performance on non multithreaded applications will be obsolete in a few years.

Re: Temptation of the Apple: Dolphin on macOS M1

#270

Post by mengineer »

gjsman-1000 wrote: post #189

For anyone shocked that ARM chips could get this far, and for the Android users in the audience, remember that Apple cofounded ARM.

I think android users are more aware that GPUs are where you'd spend money.

No one was competing for fastest single thread because no one needs it.

Well maybe marketers need it.

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