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Nonnative English speakers share their gripes about speaking English

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Re: Nonnative English speakers share their gripes about speaking English

#261

Post by TchoBeer »

danans wrote: post #165
ghaff wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The US mostly doesn't really have true dialects but there can be a fair bit of localized slang in some groups. And some accents, especially heavy rural Southern accents, can be tough especially for a non-native speaker.

> The US mostly doesn't really have true dialects I think speakers of Cajun, Gullah, or High Tider dialects would seriously beg to differ. And those are just a few of the "true" dialects of the American South. Outside of that there are many dialects that mix Spanish and English throughout the southwest.

Also dialects spoken by yiddish speakers, most frequently found in east coast cities like New York.

Re: Nonnative English speakers share their gripes about speaking English

#262

Post by sime2009 »

meepmorp wrote: post #65
heurisko wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> And there are dialects that are pretty much incomprehensible to people who grew up in the mainstream dialect (true of many other languages as well) I think there are differences in accent, but I don't recognise anywhere as being "pretty much incomprehensible". I speak "standard" German as a foreigner, and have definitely found dialects that are "pretty much incomprehensible". I haven't found differences to such a d…

> I haven't found such differences in English. Find yourself a native Glaswegian to chat with, and see if you still feel the same way.

I was in Glasgow years ago for a conference. Wonderfully friendly locals, I didn't understand a word they said.

Re: Nonnative English speakers share their gripes about speaking English

#263

Post by patrickthebold »

amirkdv wrote: post #120
pdpi wrote: post #26

As a non-native speaker, one fascinating phenomenon for me is the flip side to Uncleftish Beholding[1]. Many latinate words are considered more sophisticated, or fancier in general, than germanic words. Because I'm a native speaker of a Romance language, those are precisely the words that I reach for naturally, because they're familiar. What follows is that, past a certain threshold where your English is good enough,…

The dual origin story of the English language is quite fascinating! There's a Wikipedia page dedicated to a list of just what you described, synonymous words with Romance vs Germanic origins. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_English_words_with_d...

I noticed dove/pigeon on there:

I was taking an Arabic class and the professor was Egyptian. At one point she mentioned 'Pigeons of peace', which sounded ridiculous to my ears since 'doves' are a peace symbol and not pigeons, even though they are the same animal.

Re: Nonnative English speakers share their gripes about speaking English

#264

Post by MispelledToyota »

andrewzah wrote: post #233
MispelledToyota wrote: post #211

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Howdy" seems like a successful synechdoche for American dialect to me. Seems like what makes something a proper representation is somewhat personal.

Not to derail the conversation more, but "howdy" is more of a southern American thing than just American. I never used that in the midwest/north until I moved to the south.

Yeah, I'm from the midwest and only would use it somewhat tongue in cheek or to mix things up. But most short-hands for American culture internationally seem to be focused on Southern/Western.

Re: Nonnative English speakers share their gripes about speaking English

#265

Post by twic »

shayanbahal wrote: post #181

As a non-native speaker, and coming from "genderless languages"[1], Persian, it took me quite some time to get used to gender based pronouns. With the new pronoun restructure in the English language in north America, I'm having hard time to understand how to talk amongst strangers (people whom I'm not familiar with their preferred pronouns) . [1] : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gender_neutrality_in_genderles...

There's a different, perhaps even worse, pitfall for people coming from gendered languages where the gender of a possessive pronoun agrees with the thing possessed rather than the person possessing. I have heard Spanish people say things like "I saw Joe Biden and her wife on television".

Re: Nonnative English speakers share their gripes about speaking English

#266

Post by dmnd »

stavros wrote: post #235
meepmorp wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I haven't found such differences in English. Find yourself a native Glaswegian to chat with, and see if you still feel the same way.

Obligatory Limmy: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0YfRbNipdOg NSFW language, if you can understand it.

also hilarious if you can understand it

Re: Nonnative English speakers share their gripes about speaking English

#267

Post by twic »

Izkata wrote: post #243
anbende wrote: post #209

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So a cursory google search shows this definition of “native speaker” in several places: “a person who has spoken the language in question from earliest childhood” And this makes sense, because “native” as an adjective means: “associated with the place or circumstances of a person's birth” So native speaker literally means a speaker by birth. Where are you getting the “fluent only by immersion” definition? Are you ins…

The speed you replied, I think you might have missed the second paragraph I edited in (a habit I have of posting the comment, rereading it outside the edit box, then adding clarification). The edit should make it clear I'm not talking about native fluency.

I don't think your second paragraph ("So native speakers ...") changes the meaning. And, FWIW, i also disagree - i think that a native speaker is someone who grew up speaking that language with everyone around them.

Re: Nonnative English speakers share their gripes about speaking English

#268

Post by hn8788 »

gadders wrote: post #239
benrbray wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I got beat up a lot too As someone born in the 90s I'm always shocked to hear about how culturally accepted it was for children to be physically abused at school in my parents' generation. People talk about getting beaten up at school like it was nothing, like they deserved it for talking funny or liking comic books. It's so normal that the children's shows I grew up with on Nickelodeon / Cartoon Network / etc all…

I heard on a podcast the other day about people joining the US Military or Police that have never been in a fist fight in their lives. Being nearly 50, that is incredible to me.

I'm one of those people. I joined the Marines in 2005 and have still never been in a non-sparring fight at 33 years old. Given sufficient training, I think it could be preferable. When training with rifles/pistols, the people who'd never used a gun before usually did the best because they didn't have bad habits.

Re: Nonnative English speakers share their gripes about speaking English

#269

Post by notdang »

slver wrote: post #186

I'm not sure why is this here. It's basically a teacher complaining that people don't like when she makes up words, and has a strong accent. Language is a living protocol that you can only learn by listening people use it and using it yourself constantly. Whether a made up word makes sense syntactically and grammatically doesn't matter. In fact whether it's in a dictionary also doesn't matter. What matters is being u…

> Strong Indian accent is especially infuriating for this, I find it very hard to listen to and understand.

This applies to any accent you were not exposed previously. I noticed that after some time you get used and understand it perfectly fine.

Re: Nonnative English speakers share their gripes about speaking English

#270

Post by damagednoob »

> "I still encounter the situation when a stranger interrupts me after a few words I spoke to interrogate me: 'You have a strong accent. Where are you from?' It is a continuous reminder that you are forever an alien in your own country."

Ugh. When will this victim mentality end? I'm a naturalised citizen in a foreign country and get asked this all the time because of my accent. It has never come across as anything less than interest.

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