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Belgian farmer accidentally moves French border

bbc.co.uk

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Re: Belgian farmer accidentally moves French border

#261

Post by taejo »

peterburkimsher wrote: post #251
gumby wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have a friend who grew up in France (well, except for her kitchen which was in Belgium); she went to school in Belgium, crossing the border (which in those days had a gate) twice each day. I just imagine the guards opening the gate for a little girl with a school satchel. The bollards which held the gate are still there.

I grew up on the border of France and Switzerland. My dad worked at CERN in Switzerland, was paid in Swiss francs, and had Swiss health insurance. Houses were cheaper in France, so they live in the Pays de Gex and crossed the border every day. I was born in Switzerland. I was smuggled to France when I was a few days old so my parents could take me home. I got a passport a few months later, with a baby photo. I went t…

Don't most countries grant citizenship to children born on their territory who aren't eligible for any other citizenship? I've heard of cases where the children had a hard time proving that to be the case (the embassy of the parents' state of citizenship would neither grant citizenship nor certify non-citizenship) but I didn't realise one could be completely ineligible for any citizenship from birth in a western country.

Re: Belgian farmer accidentally moves French border

#262

Post by seszett »

peterburkimsher wrote: post #251
gumby wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have a friend who grew up in France (well, except for her kitchen which was in Belgium); she went to school in Belgium, crossing the border (which in those days had a gate) twice each day. I just imagine the guards opening the gate for a little girl with a school satchel. The bollards which held the gate are still there.

I grew up on the border of France and Switzerland. My dad worked at CERN in Switzerland, was paid in Swiss francs, and had Swiss health insurance. Houses were cheaper in France, so they live in the Pays de Gex and crossed the border every day. I was born in Switzerland. I was smuggled to France when I was a few days old so my parents could take me home. I got a passport a few months later, with a baby photo. I went t…

> The problem of growing up there is that I can't be Swiss - my parents weren't resident. I can't be French either - I wasn't born there. So my passport is British by descent. Children cannot be British from me, because I wasn't born in the UK. If I wanted to continue living in Geneva, children would be stateless.

If you have lived in France for the past 5 years (and still live there) you can get French citizenship. If you have obtained a diploma in a French university, you only need to have lived in France for the past 2 years.

If you have moved since then and don't live in France anymore, it might be too late though (unless you move back to France and wait 2 or 5 years).

(Also if you have siblings with French nationality, maybe if they were born in France after you were born in Switzerland, you are already technically French but have to claim your nationality).

Re: Belgian farmer accidentally moves French border

#264

Post by peterburkimsher »

taejo wrote: post #261
peterburkimsher wrote: post #251

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I grew up on the border of France and Switzerland. My dad worked at CERN in Switzerland, was paid in Swiss francs, and had Swiss health insurance. Houses were cheaper in France, so they live in the Pays de Gex and crossed the border every day. I was born in Switzerland. I was smuggled to France when I was a few days old so my parents could take me home. I got a passport a few months later, with a baby photo. I went t…

Don't most countries grant citizenship to children born on their territory who aren't eligible for any other citizenship? I've heard of cases where the children had a hard time proving that to be the case (the embassy of the parents' state of citizenship would neither grant citizenship nor certify non-citizenship) but I didn't realise one could be completely ineligible for any citizenship from birth in a western coun…

If they're not eligible for any other citizenship, you're right, I would be able to apply for them to have a special grant of nationality.

However, I would like me, a future wife, and potential future children to all have the right to live in the same country.

If those kids had a Swiss passport, but my visa to Switzerland got denied, I'd end up separated from them. This is happening to many British families from the area who hadn't tried to get a second EU citizenship. Also, those kids would have to do military service for Switzerland (or Austria, Taiwan, Korea, Singapore... many countries) and learn to kill foreigners. As a foreigner, there's a conflict of interest - I'd rather not have children be forced to kill me.

Re: Belgian farmer accidentally moves French border

#265

Post by peterburkimsher »

seszett wrote: post #262
peterburkimsher wrote: post #251

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I grew up on the border of France and Switzerland. My dad worked at CERN in Switzerland, was paid in Swiss francs, and had Swiss health insurance. Houses were cheaper in France, so they live in the Pays de Gex and crossed the border every day. I was born in Switzerland. I was smuggled to France when I was a few days old so my parents could take me home. I got a passport a few months later, with a baby photo. I went t…

> The problem of growing up there is that I can't be Swiss - my parents weren't resident. I can't be French either - I wasn't born there. So my passport is British by descent. Children cannot be British from me, because I wasn't born in the UK. If I wanted to continue living in Geneva, children would be stateless. If you have lived in France for the past 5 years (and still live there) you can get French citizenship.…

Moving away and moving back again is the situation of my friend Drew, who had the same situation (with US and Canadian parents, but born in Switzerland and living in France). He went to university in the UK, and returned to live in France and work in Switzerland. The processing time means that 5 years is actually 7 years or more.

My brother tried to apply for French nationality after his 18th birthday before going to university, but the application process is so slow that he wasn't interviewed until several years into his studies. The French immigration officials didn't like that he wasn't living there, so they deferred his application until he returned (and he chose not to return, but went to Australia instead). It may have also been complicated by going to the International School of Geneva in Switzerland, rather than a local French school.

I don't have any other siblings born in France, and my mum is past the age of childbearing unfortunately! My parents were able to naturalise and become French after 34 years. They applied when my dad retired, and after about 2 years they finally got it, in the midst of the political troubles of the UK leaving the EU. There was some worry about whether my parents would even be allowed to continue living in the house they spent 25 years paying off a mortgage to own. They couldn't apply earlier because CERN is an international organisation and doesn't pay French tax, so my dad was only paying French tax after his retirement.

Re: Belgian farmer accidentally moves French border

#266

Post by peterburkimsher »

peterburkimsher wrote: post #251
gumby wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have a friend who grew up in France (well, except for her kitchen which was in Belgium); she went to school in Belgium, crossing the border (which in those days had a gate) twice each day. I just imagine the guards opening the gate for a little girl with a school satchel. The bollards which held the gate are still there.

I grew up on the border of France and Switzerland. My dad worked at CERN in Switzerland, was paid in Swiss francs, and had Swiss health insurance. Houses were cheaper in France, so they live in the Pays de Gex and crossed the border every day. I was born in Switzerland. I was smuggled to France when I was a few days old so my parents could take me home. I got a passport a few months later, with a baby photo. I went t…

Why not marry a British girl and live in the UK?

Because I can never be truly British. 5 years from now, I hope to earn NZ nationality. Any children born overseas after that could have NZ citizenship by descent.

But a British citizen by descent has no way to "upgrade" their citizenship - not even after living there for 5 years. So I could live in the UK for 20 years, but would never be allowed to have children in Geneva. A French person has more right to become British than I do! They could naturalise, I can't. I'm officially a "second-class citizen". A citizen, not a BNO like people in Hong Kong, but without the full rights of a citizen.

Re: Belgian farmer accidentally moves French border

#267

Post by secfirstmd »

HWR_14 wrote: post #239
gumby wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have a friend who grew up in France (well, except for her kitchen which was in Belgium); she went to school in Belgium, crossing the border (which in those days had a gate) twice each day. I just imagine the guards opening the gate for a little girl with a school satchel. The bollards which held the gate are still there.

If crossing the border became sufficiently difficult, I guess they could have installed a back/side door in the kitchen.

There are farms in Ireland on both sides of the border. Imagine kicking your GAA ball over to the other side of the garden and you switch countries. A smugglers paradise over the last 100 years.

Re: Belgian farmer accidentally moves French border

#268

Post by capableweb »

tonfa wrote: post #209
FabHK wrote: post #174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or the Whisky War over Hans Island, which the Canadians claim and leave a bottle of (Canadian) whisky, upon which the Danish claim it and leave a bottle of (Danish) snaps, ad infinitum. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whisky_War

It's pretty significant right? Island typically procure claims over a large surrounding area, and there's quite a bit of resources in the arctic.

I think FabHK is referring to not the strategic advantage of "owning" that island but rather how that border-conflict is managed. Instead of stationing soldiers who shoot on sight, they manage the conflict by exchanging liquor.

Re: Belgian farmer accidentally moves French border

#269

Post by NicoJuicy »

cinntaile wrote: post #199
NicoJuicy wrote: post #178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, he was saying: > but the compulsory classes don't get you anywhere near native proficiency. And my proficiency is good enough work related and when I meet people. With no issues. What more would i need?

That's what I wrote. The original comment received a question "Do you speak both languages natively?". While not aimed at me, I addressed it for the general case. People aren't brought up with both languages and will not have a native understanding of both. 6 years of at most 3 to 5 hours a week of French in high school don't get you to native level. I don't doubt at all that it's sufficient for your needs, but the b…

I just said that i don't have any issues while working or meeting people.

If that's the bar, then i reached it. No?

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