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Study shows class bias in hiring based on few seconds of speech

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Re: Study shows class bias in hiring based on few seconds of speech

#261
post #258

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was stopped too by police and one time briefly searched, so what? Being stopped by the police is not a game changer. If you haven't done anything wrong you'll walk away and go to work and back home. Why is being stopped by police such a big deal? I think the police should do more of that in the US, it would reduce crime considerably.

I mean the past year hasn't shown you that being stopped while being black is could end up being a dangerous situation?

not really.

Jacob Blake was wanted for rape and he violated a restraining order(approaching the said rape victim). He fought the police and even choke-hold one of them. He was preparing to run away with a stolen car with the kids in it (that he did not have custody of). Their mother was the one that called the police, and the police knew who they were dealing with. If he would have been let go by the police, I assume an amber alert would have been issued.

Floyd was being arrested for passing counterfeit bills.

Brianna Taylor was shot after her boyfriend started shooting at the cops. The cops were executing a warrant for drug dealing. They didn't find anything, but that is beyond the point.

The guy that was shot at Wendy's (Rayshard Brooks -had to look him up)was so drunk that he fell asleep at the drive through, and the employees had to call the police to clear the lane. He had prior DUIs and he fought during the arrest, stole a taser and fired it at the cops.

These were the big cases of last year that I can remember right now. None of these were because of mere stops in traffic.

The 3 shouldn't have died, sure, but I am addressing your point: It was more than a benign stop for any of the big cases last year. I am assuming there are traffic stops where innocent people died, but BLM of 2020 was not protesting for them.

Re: Study shows class bias in hiring based on few seconds of speech

#262

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was stopped too by police and one time briefly searched, so what? Being stopped by the police is not a game changer. If you haven't done anything wrong you'll walk away and go to work and back home. Why is being stopped by police such a big deal? I think the police should do more of that in the US, it would reduce crime considerably.

"it would reduce crime considerably" There are several things wrong with this statement: the idea that most crimes are commited by individuals and not corporations, the idea that they are commited on the street, and the idea that searching a person somehow can prevent crime. Firstly a large chunk of crime, is commited by corporates, thats wage theft, consumer law breaches, money laundering, environmental protection,…

This is where you are wrong. First of all, I was only talking about violent crimes.

Real life experiment, look at Baltimore homicides https://homicides.news.baltimoresun.com/?range=2015

Look at pre-2015 and post-2015. The homicides increased from 200s to 300s. All because of a police crime and BLM protests in 2015. Now you have 100 extra people each year losing their lives. US needs more police, not less. https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2018/07/12/baltim...

All the police did was not getting proactively involved on the streets, those stop and search you were mentioning. They still responded to calls and did their investigations. The result is 50% more deaths from homicides, each year.

Re: Study shows class bias in hiring based on few seconds of speech

#263
post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nobody can take these experiences away from you or discount the difficulties you went through. But saying that you don't have white privilege because you grew up poor is not quite right either. The thing with privilege is that there's more than one kind, and they all add up (and most likely they interact as different factors, so they're more than additive). * If you're non-white in the US, you're underprivileged. * I…

Do you believe that being black or white has a larger impact than being poor or rich? If so, why? If not, why do people focus so much on race instead of wealth?

I wouldn't dare put a number on it: I frankly don't know what the ratio would be, or if there even was just one ratio.

I stand by what I said, and my main point was that this is a highly textured aspect of human experience. It's hard to reduce that to a > or a And also I think in the United States, the impact of wealth is quite high compared to other places. I think one's perspective on this would likely depend on where they grew up.

Re: Study shows class bias in hiring based on few seconds of speech

#264
post #7

I've always wondered with things like this, could it be possible to make all interaction "text-based" until final stage? Specifically for hiring: What if applicants submitted resumes, but the name and school they attended are replaced with numbers. Then throughout the interview process all interactions were text-based and they were addressed by this number. Then offer/acceptance is based on merit (hopefully) and not…

Because (admittedly an extreme example) if I'm hiring for a public-facing position, I don't want to get someone with pink and blue hair, excessive piercings and poor hygiene even if they're smart and capable of performing the job function otherwise. In at least some cases, presenting and conducting yourself as a "normal" person is important.

I thought this frame of mind was slowly disappearing in the millenial and later generations.

From my personal perspective, if I see a person like you have described at your front desk, I am much more likely to think you are a company that cares about people more than just the bottom line. Seriously my first impression of such a person is, "Oh, this company clearly hires based on skills instead of just looks." My expectations are typically that the person will be quite adept.

Re: Study shows class bias in hiring based on few seconds of speech

#265
post #220

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Few challenge that the children of highly educated parents have higher academic achievement. As highly educated parents is strongly correlated with upper class. This is enough to make it quite likely that someone from an upper class background will be the better candidate in expectation, even if the only information you get is the socioeconomic background. We can quibble over details, but the more you dig into this t…

As shopworn as the term is, this is what is meant by "institutional racism." Racist sentiment is not necessary for people to behave in what is ultimately a racist way. I would also challenge your notion. It is true that wealth is correlated with educational achievement. But educational achievement will not, in itself, lead to someone speaking in a way that is more patrician. Is it the kind of society we want to creat…

!As shopworn as the term is, this is what is meant by "institutional racism." Racist sentiment is not necessary for people to behave in what is ultimately a racist way.! With the way you put it now, the people living within such systems would be racists taking racist actions based on sound evidence based reasoning. The term itself is also problematic, as no institutions nor race need to be involved for this kind of problem to occur, its simply the most familiar form to americans. Inadequate equilibria is better, but the corresponding the problem xxx would disappear if people weren't idiots isn't productive either.

Just like it is not necessary for the upper class to be more educated, its not necessary for the more educated to speak upper class. But it is more likely.

That such would be enough to stagnate social mobility seems like pessimistic hyperbole to me. Given that we are talking about high value added, high paying, i.e. worker shortage jobs and that there are significantly more demand for such workers than the upper class could provide, meaning, even at worst, such behaviour could only slow down social mobility, not stop it.

If the people who are evaluated are drawn randomly from the population as they claim to in the study, then no. If its a real hiering situation, then possibly yes, though it depends on how the position was advertised. That however may not even change the outcome of the study. In most big companies recruiters are not looking for the best applicant for the job, or atleast have no incentives to do so. They are looking for the easiest to motivate hiring for the job. Similarly, their boss may not have ordered them to find the best worker for the job, they likely asked for a good enough worker who causes minimum issues and who if they cause issues were easy to motivate having hired in the first place. Note that I never claimed that upper class speech meant better at the job, I explicitly wrote academic achievement, i.e the kind of thing which makes for an easily justified hire. Imagine having hired Dr House except without a degree, or a slightly below average doctor with an average grade degree. Now one is plain better, but the other will never get you fired. But thats a whole other problem.

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