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Mall department stores were struggling; the pandemic has pushed them to the edge

washingtonpost.com

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Re: Mall department stores were struggling; the pandemic has pushed them to the edge

#261

Post by emodendroket »

Grimm1 wrote: post #129
vasco wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The simple solution is work from home because most people already have a home, and simple solutions win. The only reason you're mentioning malls is because they are there, but unless you're a mall-walker on the weekends, I'm pretty sure the average developer's definition of a good lunch break isn't "walking past the mall McDonald's 3 times before returning to your mall wework" or whatever.

I don't want to work from home every day though and neither do a lot of people.

I have loved not commuting and I have a comfortable setup but I can’t honestly say that it hasn’t been a big problem being unable to get people’s answers to quick questions for days on end.

Re: Mall department stores were struggling; the pandemic has pushed them to the edge

#262

Post by Nimitz14 »

rlayton2 wrote: post #155

Malls (shopping centres here in Australia) are terrible experiences. I don't like shopping, but the general process for shopping at a such a place is: 1) Drive some distance to get there 2) Park in a cramped car park, where the size of the parks is generally as small as legally allowed 3) Walk through the same car park, which bizarrely doesn't have walking ways for people to safely go through 4) Go to the shop and se…

This is the most whiny and ridiculous post I've ever read on hn.

Re: Mall department stores were struggling; the pandemic has pushed them to the edge

#263

Post by tyingq »

sergiomattei wrote: post #123
naturalauction wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

FWIW this isn't necessarily indicative of the number of ones in airports. For example "Istanbul Havalimani H-42 HPS Sbarro" only says airport in Turkish and "Aeropuerto Los Cabos" is in Spanish (though maybe these are the exception, not the rule). Looking at it further, it does go both ways as well - for example "Gurnee Mills" is in a mall. There also seem to be a surprising number of Sbarros outside of the U.S thoug…

I actually ate at the Havalimani Sbarro! It was my first taste of European pizza. It had no tomato sauce inside it. I went to the staff to signal that I wanted sauce in the pizza and they had no clue what I was saying. That day I came to the shocking realization that that's how the rest of the world ate pizza.

"European pizza"

Interesting. Does this vary across Europe? I lived in Germany for a few years, and ate plenty of pizza with tomato sauce.

Re: Mall department stores were struggling; the pandemic has pushed them to the edge

#264

Post by brudgers »

Spooky23 wrote: post #252
brudgers wrote: post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People think there are ways for the market to produce non-market outcomes. And don’t realize the scale at which market makers operate is qualitatively different from normal experience with real-estate. For big money quick profits are a problem.

As a layman, it almost seems like a either “quick profit” or “zero risk”. A family friend opened a bakery. Finding a storefront was an insane process, in some cases it’s apparent that the landlord doesn’t want to rent out the space, it’s been vacant for 4 years and rent is... aspirational.

Four years is nothing on a multi-generational investment horizon.

Any real-estate pro forma will include a vacancy rate.

If a person owns ten storefronts on a block, discounting one lease sets a lower rate for the nine other leases.

If a business can't afford the lease, that is a problem with its cashflow and/or access to capital relative to its aspirations. Often the landlord can simply take depreciation and meet its IRR targets. Particularly if the landlord is unleveraged. The building and land aren't going anywhere. That's the nature of real property as an asset class.

Re: Mall department stores were struggling; the pandemic has pushed them to the edge

#265

Post by samatman »

vasco wrote: post #121
samatman wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ok but the perfect isn't the enemy of the good here. Being able to go for a climate-controlled one-kilometer walk every lunch break is a real luxury for a lot of people, it's way better than a cell in some high-rise near the highway. The mall could have a hackerspace too! It has potential.

The simple solution is work from home because most people already have a home, and simple solutions win. The only reason you're mentioning malls is because they are there, but unless you're a mall-walker on the weekends, I'm pretty sure the average developer's definition of a good lunch break isn't "walking past the mall McDonald's 3 times before returning to your mall wework" or whatever.

I work for an all-remote company so there has been literally no change in my work life as a result of the pandemic.

It's not for everyone! Even for me, if there was a mall in my area, which had coworking, an attached hackerspace and, let's say, a gym? I would pick up a minimal "grab a desk" coworking package.

Why not? Sometimes being around people is nice. Sometimes there's lawn work or construction happening near my house. I could make a thermos of coffee and a protein shake first thing in the morning, head to coworking, get some stuff done, hit the gym, have my choice of food court meals, and head home for a shower and a quiet afternoon at home. Or call it a soft half-day and spend the afternoon working on something with circuit boards, or just shooting the breeze with the hackers.

Gosh this is sounding really nice! Anyone finds a setup like this, let me know!

Re: Mall department stores were struggling; the pandemic has pushed them to the edge

#266

Post by bobthepanda »

alistairSH wrote: post #248
bobthepanda wrote: post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The neat thing about malls is that they are 1. Usually already located at a crossroads; you want a mall at a busy junction to attract custom 2. Usually already a local transit hub, since they tend to be a major concentration of jobs 3. Are separated from any pesky residential neighbors by major roads and/or large swathes for parking 4. Have a lot of land in the form of said large swathes of parking These characterist…

#1 is a mixed bag. Access by car is "easy", but traffic can be awful. #3 is a negative. The separation from housing makes them LESS suitable for office space. Put the two together, and even if the mall is redeveloped into nice office space with room to walk around, people outside the mall have to drive to do so. For people on the other side of those major arteries, they literally have to drive 1-2 blocks to walk arou…

#3 is a negative if you decide to only build office space on the mall property. But one can choose to build both residential and office space. Like this actual project: https://www.gglo.com/project/northgate-mall-redevelopment/

Neighbors in single family suburban homes are more likely to be NIMBYs and block development, so insulation from them is a feature, not a bug.

Re: Mall department stores were struggling; the pandemic has pushed them to the edge

#267

Post by hntroll666 »

beowulfey wrote: post #235
hntroll666 wrote: post #234

Some coward flagged my comment instead of replying and using words. Here it is again: Not the pandemic, no. That's clearly incorrect attribution of causation, because it's not as if malls can't keep the stores staffed due to people dying. It's government policies that are killing businesses, not the virus. This is exactly the kind of take one would expect from the Washington Post, a propaganda outlet.

the stores being staffed are not the problem, its that people dont feel the need to go anymore. nothing is stopping us from going to malls. the pandemic made me realize i dont need to.

Well, the situation varies from place to place. What you're suggesting is definitely true to some extent. But other factors predominate sometimes, like a relentless taxpayer-funded fear campaign supported eagerly by the press, which loves to be able to report anything alarming. Some businesses are being put under by curfews, limits on what they can sell, expensive new requirements, and other forms of interference.

Re: Mall department stores were struggling; the pandemic has pushed them to the edge

#268

Post by bifrost »

dredmorbius wrote: post #162
bifrost wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Stonestown isn't in the Outer Sunset, its closer to "Lakeside" TBH. It'd probably be a good spot for housing since the lightrail runs next to it, its near a college (SF State), and near 280 which makes commuting to the southbay easy.

Point. Though technically it's ... Stonestown. https://californiatravelmedia.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/12... South-west side of SF, about as far from downtown as you can get.

I honestly don't recall what it was called before the Mall existed, then again it was built in the 50's and tons of new neighborhood names showed up then...

Its a stones throw from Daly City so indeed about as far as you can get from downtown heheh.

Re: Mall department stores were struggling; the pandemic has pushed them to the edge

#269

Post by shard »

brudgers wrote: post #87
shard wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think one point is that there are only so many stores one mall can support, depending on the local population size. If land is expensive, then building on top of the mall to further utilize the land can become economical. As to whether offices or apartments are the better choice, that would depend on the local supply and demand of each.

Major projects take a couple of decades to get out of the ground. What was the demand like for housing ten years ago? What is the demand for office space like today? What was the demand for retail twenty years ago? (Low, low, and low) [1]. I agree there are only so many stores a mall can support. At that point the economically sound strategy is to stop building. It's not to layer on incidental complexity that provide…

Yes, real estate is a very regional thing, and places not affected by the S&L crisis and the dot.com crash would have different economics, for example in other countries. The place I had in my mind when replying to your comment was South Korea, where there are many mixed-use high rises with business or even malls on the first few floors, and residential above. I don't know the impact of S&L and dot.com on the economics of these buildings back when they were being planned and built, but seeing as how they are not an uncommon sight, and are sought after as residences, likely they had a different view than your analysis.

Re: Mall department stores were struggling; the pandemic has pushed them to the edge

#270

Post by atat7024 »

beambot wrote: post #195
admax88q wrote: post #179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They're already a suburban blight. Just teat them down. Put a park there instead.

Where does the money come from? Cities are cash-strapped, which makes demolition & park development unlikely. Existing property owners aren't exactly in the business of giving away prime realestate or operating charities -- they'd probably opt for more suburban housing developments.

Us. The money will come from us.

Or RoboCop. You choose.

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