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Early-Retirement Update

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Re: Early-Retirement Update

#261

Post by AlwaysRock »

schnevets wrote: post #156
AlwaysRock wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know. I'd love to have a basic level of income and then be able to dither around with random jobs. I'd love to be a bartender for 6 months, work in a bookstore for 6 months, become a carpenter for a year or two. I'd probably feel differently if I actually had a trust fund since my upbringing would be different but it does feel stifling that in order to have a financially rewarding career one has to stay on a…

I frequently have similar fantasies and have to consciously remind myself that I can get the same happiness in my current role. When I think of opening a bar/restaurant, I'm actually just hoping for more quality time with friends. When I think of opening a bookstore, I'm actually just hoping for more time to focus on reading. When I think of becoming a cook, I'm actually just hoping for more passion and drive in the…

Huh. Interesting way of looking at it. I don't associate wanting to work at a bar with spending more quality times with friends. I think it would be interesting to be in a customer service role and working in a fast paced environment where I have to make drinks/pour beers.

I like the little bookstore near me. They play classical music during the day and the lady who runs it seems nice. I'd like to work there for a while and see what that is like.

Carpentry (or being a cook which would also be on my list) is about doing something with my hands professionally. Can I make my living by creating something with my hands? What would that feel like? I know I can make a living using my voice. I know I can make a living with my fingers on a keyboard.

What would it look like to make a living building something physical? For me it's more about things that seem like they would be interesting life experiences.

Re: Early-Retirement Update

#262

Post by ChuckMcM »

I liked this piece. It is well written and the author has good self awareness which is helping them in their journey.

I also see in it a common question which the author hints at but doesn't seem to land on, "What is my purpose?"

I get emails from people sometimes who write "I want to be rich! Tell me how to do that." and I always ask them "Why do you want to be rich?" It is however also the question the FIRE folks should also be asking.

Here is a clue, no amount of money will make you happy or satisfied with your life, if your life has no purpose. And that purpose has to come from inside of you, not from some external source. Having kids may align your brain with the 'purpose' of raising and launching those kids into the world.

But folks who retire "early" (what is early) and have no purpose find retired life fun for a couple of years and then it loses a lot of its luster. They need a 'job' which gives them purpose.

And the longer you live the more you realize there is no "win" square at the end of your life, your life just stops. While that can be depressing, it can also be liberating. Consider how you can fix one small problem, provide durable support for one person or group of people who need support, and you start to realize that even after you are dead they will still be supported, and the problem will still be fixed. That is "winning."

I didn't realize any of this until I had kids. I mean up to that point my path was "learn all the things, get rich, and retire to a life of leisure." But I did have kids, and I found I got much more satisfaction out of the path of "Help launch these new people into the world so that their impact is positive and your own contribution to the world lives on." Many writers have written, "We live on through the lives and deeds of our children." and I found that much more profound once I had children.

In my professional life I found I get the same sense of accomplishment when I help someone move to their next phase, when I was presiding over the robotics club it was great to help new members build their first robot and to see where they took it.

Doing those things doesn't require being "rich" or being "famous." It just requires me to take time to help on things when I can with advice and guidance. I found it was the difference between "having a purpose" and my earlier goal of "get rich and retire."

Re: Early-Retirement Update

#263

Post by modeless »

hogFeast wrote: post #202
bhelkey wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There are likely issues with the data, which is not easily solvable given that complete databases are expensive. >> cFIREsim uses historical stock/bond/gold/inflation data from 1871 to present[1] I am not an expert here buy my impress is that this data is publicly available. What data is this model missing? [1] cfiresim.com/about/

It isn't, it is expensive and time-consuming to collect this data, and the edge is huge (I know a fund manager who has been spending several million a year for the best part of a decade collecting historical financial statement data). Also, a lot of the large databases are known to be inaccurate (for example, CRSP). I think the best long-term data is Credit Suisse DSM and Global Financial Data (I can't attest to the…

I was thinking about making a monte carlo simulation for my own use. Obviously I'm not going to be spending millions for the data. What's the best freely or cheaply (i.e. not "call us for pricing") available historical data for stocks and bonds? Or is the free data just so bad it's not worth doing at all? And what are the typical problems with the free data?

Re: Early-Retirement Update

#264

Post by kleinsch »

jsdalton wrote: post #38
xwdv wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, financial independence is what matters in a world where returns on capital will greatly outperform returns on labor.

Out of curiosity where are you finding high returns on capital today? I just don’t see them. (As an engineer, conversely, I see very high returns on my labor.)

The stock market has gone through the roof for the last six months. Where aren’t you seeing returns on capital?

Re: Early-Retirement Update

#265

Post by bobcostas55 »

joshuaissac wrote: post #173
ssully wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He mulls over and comes to the conclusion later in his post that he probably could have done more to save his relationship. Just based off of the sentence you quoted and other things he said, I wouldn't be surprised if he was very dismissive of his ex-wifes struggle to find meaning, or desire to go back to work. Cheating is terrible, but having a partner who doesn't try to see your struggles can be crippling.

> I wouldn't be surprised if he was very dismissive of his ex-wifes struggle to find meaning, or desire to go back to work. What you are saying is in direct contradiction with what he says in the article: > I encouraged her to explore her own life and find activities and goals that would help her feel better. I suggested therapy and offered to go with her. I was clear that if she wanted to go back to work I was eager…

It's pretty obvious that what she wanted was not for her to go back to work, but for _him_ to go back to work and earn more money.

Re: Early-Retirement Update

#266

Post by AlwaysRock »

allenu wrote: post #183
schnevets wrote: post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I frequently have similar fantasies and have to consciously remind myself that I can get the same happiness in my current role. When I think of opening a bar/restaurant, I'm actually just hoping for more quality time with friends. When I think of opening a bookstore, I'm actually just hoping for more time to focus on reading. When I think of becoming a cook, I'm actually just hoping for more passion and drive in the…

That's a good way of looking at it. This discussion point reminds me of a Sir Ken Robinson talk (not sure which one, but he has many). After a friend's musical performance on stage, he comments to his friend that he'd love to do what he's doing, being on stage, playing guitar. His friend quickly remarks that no, he actually wouldn't. If he really wanted to be a musician, he would've done it by now. He would've put in…

Yeah I agree to a certain extent. But I wouldnt LOVE to be a bartender. I think it would be interesting to try it for 6 months. Actually I'm quite certain at the end of the 6th months I'd be perfectly happy to never work behind a bar again. I might even dread the job by the 3rd month.

But it would be interesting to try. I was a life guard in college. I am probably the worst lifeguard of all time but it was fun for a summer. Same with being a basketball referee. I don't really know the rules well enough to officiate a game. But it was a fun job for a year.

It's things like that which I was able to afford to do in college or early adulthood that seem like they are not possible now. Not without significant financial sacrifice and a large detour of a career in motion.

Re: Early-Retirement Update

#267

Post by CryingSofa »

thesuitonym wrote: post #258
dimmke wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've had friends with trust funds, who just seem to dither around in life. "Making music" they never release. Picking up little "pass the time" jobs. And these are people that aren't living "leanFIRE" It seems like such a nihilistic way to live. You're just floating along the stream of life. Things worked out for you, but you have no further passion or inclination to improve the world? No problems you could set yours…

>Things worked out for you, but you have no further passion or inclination to improve the world? No problems you could set yourself to solving? And why should they? I'm no fan of trust fund babies who coast by on life, but really, why does anyone have to justify their lives by doing something to improve the world? What are you and I accomplishing right now? Maybe it's just the severe burnout talking, but I for one wo…

The definition of 'retirement' is a common debate in the FIRE space. Often (not always!) it boils down to fights over definitions. Would you call daily volunteering at a soup kitchen (or church, or whatever) 'retired'?

By the way, "making the world better" doesn't need to be large or expensive, at least in my opinion: If I talk to the lone, probably widowed neighbour on my way home, I count that as "making the world better".

Re: Early-Retirement Update

#268

Post by abraxas »

samvher wrote: post #62
corry wrote: post #55

Kudos to people who go FIRE without state-provided healthcare - from a "typical brainwashed Canadian" POV you're one health mishap / one ambulance-ride's worth of unexpected medical costs to kill the entire dream. Also - no kids - huge variable for FIRE obviously, but perhaps less obviously ALSO a huge variable for life's purpose. Something I've seen in my friend and family group is that a lot of couples hit a point…

As someone who is about to get a first child - what kind of low lows should I brace myself for?

Immediately it’s the sleep deprivation which is basically a form of torture, remember. Then there are anxieties about their well being and their health on occasion. Later in teenage years about how they are starting to run their own lives and are they maybe veering into dangerous areas (eg hard drugs). Then there are worries about how their life is turning out as adults. The anxiety doesn’t stop but it’s also the most important adventure in your life that no amount of traveling, home improvements, social media bragging can match despite what the child-free crowd seems to believe.

Re: Early-Retirement Update

#269

Post by dencodev »

greedo wrote: post #208

I have a high school friend who retired around 40. He came from a family of money, but worked in corporate IT sales for a large, well known vendor. We had lost touch with each other until 5 years ago when he reached out to me via FB and wanted to call. We spoke for a few hours about our lives, and I realized he was a lost soul. He had a wife and children, and had been retired for over twenty years. His kids were now…

I like this article around this topic. I read it many years years ago and it rang very true for me. Traveling can be fun but it doesn't solve the problem needing purpose (for those with that need).

https://medium.com/personal-growth/travel-is-no-cure-for-the...

Re: Early-Retirement Update

#270

Post by dnissley »

DubiousPusher wrote: post #218
GordonS wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Not just FIRE people, but 99% of all retirees at any age end up doing nothing of note with their time. If you spend some years just chilling and and are actually happy, then sure, why not. But there are so many retired people who do nothing, and are not happy. For example, my mother, my mother and father in law, my other father in law, my grandmother - all retired, and all do absolutely nothing but watch TV and moa…

It makes perfect sense. It's very popular now to see everything as genetic. That is all our focus. We neglect how decades of being in the same environment with the same incentives wires the brain a certain way. When you spend all that time disciplining yourself to work (against your own will) and having little time to develop your own interests, you become hard wired to do what is necessary. When that necessity cease…

I think this is an unappreciated explanation, and is the biggest reason why I want to work towards some level of financial independence. I have no real desire to retire early, so I could take or leave that part. But being able to make decisions about how I spend my time without having to worry about my next paycheck seems like the obvious path towards long-term happiness. If a working environment becomes toxic I have the option to leave. If I feel like hiking the Appalachian trail I can go do it before I'm old and frail. If I'm tired of the field I'm working in I can take time off to study and do something else. If a loved one needs assistance I can go to their side.

Being compulsively tied to income generating work, and then all of a sudden being cut off from that seems like a surefire path towards unhappiness, since someone who has done that their whole life likely hasn't explored the mental space of what else they could be doing with their life.

On the other hand, being totally free from any restraints seems like it could be an almost worse curse. No pressure to complete any projects, to help anybody, to do something useful for the world. That also wires your brain in a particular fashion, and could be it's own version of hell. Perhaps this is sour grapes though :)

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