Earlier quoted context omitted.
Curious, which country are you referring to?
South Africa...I looked on the wiki page for it now, and it doesn't do the state of healthcare here justice.
Hospitals lift curtain on prices, reveals giant swings for hips, knees and more
261–270 of 283 posts
Re: Hospitals lift curtain on prices, reveals giant swings for hips, knees and more
#262Earlier quoted context omitted.
South Africa...I looked on the wiki page for it now, and it doesn't do the state of healthcare here justice.
Ok, so we must have very different views of public health if you consider the south african system to work near perfection. I mean, can you really say that given south african HIV prevalence? And that's just an example among many others.
It's true that SA has quite good tertiary and secondary care, while they struggle with public health and primary care.
I do think the pricing mechanism of almost any other country outside the US is more reasonable than ours. Insurance, big hospital chains, and yes, to a lesser extent the AMA, have ripped pricing from its market mooring.
There are many other countries that have well-functioning market-based medical systems (even as they sometimes struggle with public health system due to poverty): Mexico and India spring to mind. Even catastrophic medical care (eg, cancer treatment, or major trauma) is affordable to the middle class in both of those countries, unlike in the US, where those events can ruin a middle class family even with insurance (I've lived it myself, to some extent).
Regulation can play a positive role here, but not by creating more bureaucracies. Rather, we need more transparent pricing. We need enforcement of anti-trust legislation against big hospital chains. With some hesitation, I'd say we also need to resume of significant prior support of basic medical research to push big pharma beyond their current biosimilars business model. And we need to "encourage" the AMA to put out more physicians (the student loan issue can be mostly solved by getting the government out of the student loan game).
Re: Hospitals lift curtain on prices, reveals giant swings for hips, knees and more
#263Earlier quoted context omitted.
South Africa...I looked on the wiki page for it now, and it doesn't do the state of healthcare here justice.
Ok, so we must have very different views of public health if you consider the south african system to work near perfection. I mean, can you really say that given south african HIV prevalence? And that's just an example among many others.
Re: Hospitals lift curtain on prices, reveals giant swings for hips, knees and more
#264Earlier quoted context omitted.
Paying for healthcare via taxes would look very, very similar to how it is now. Because that's how insurance works: you are paying into a pool now to get access to help later. I can't tell if you're being sarcastically libertarian or deliberately antagonistic.
You’re paying into a pool for the neediest to use. The social contract being that you implicitly admit you will one day be needy, no matter how healthy you live your life. Thus, you willingly throw your money away when you’re young and healthy and you do it smiling.
Yes, that's the definition of insurance. Insurance company takes money from everyone (say, for car insurance) but only pays out to a few (those who crash their car).
As any insurance broker will happily tell you, the smaller the pool of people you belong to, the higher the premiums because they can't spread the risk as wide. Thus, a 100K+ employee company can buy health insurance for their employees at a better rate than a 4 person startup.
The optimal group size for an insurance pool is: everyone in the whole country. Maximum pool size, risk is spread as widely as possible, cost is minimized.
Re: Hospitals lift curtain on prices, reveals giant swings for hips, knees and more
#265Earlier quoted context omitted.
None of these links say what you're claiming they say. Your courthouse link: > “For me, the important lesson is that single payer can re-direct huge resources – about $700 billion per year in the U.S. – from insurance paperwork and excessive drug prices to clinical care. In other words, with a simplified payment system, we can afford to insure everyone and with high quality insurance – broad benefits, minimal cost-sh…
Yes, MystK, if these are the texts you say support your thesis, then I think I might not understand what you mean by the statement that ”there are definitely people who think universal healthcare will cost nothing”. If what you mean is that there are people who think that the costs could be less under such a system, and thus that a change would end up ”costing nothing” as contrasted with ”costs going up compared to t…
Re: Hospitals lift curtain on prices, reveals giant swings for hips, knees and more
#266Earlier quoted context omitted.
Sure it's written about all the time. https://thehill.com/blogs/congress-blog/healthcare/484301-22... https://www.ucsf.edu/news/2020/01/416416/single-payer-system... https://www.courthousenews.com/study-universal-health-care-i... https://pnhp.org/news/implementing-a-universal-healthcare-sy...
> https://thehill.com/blogs/congress-blog/healthcare/484301-22... I'm struggling to find where this author concludes that universal healthcare is free like free energy from a perpetual motion machine. Can't find it. Could it be that you're misinterpreting the repetition of the fact that countries with universal healthcare have better health outcomes, and yet pay less than half of what we do for healthcare, with it so…
> there are people who think that the costs could be less under such a system, and thus that a change would end up ”costing nothing” as contrasted with ”costs going up compared to the current system”
Re: Hospitals lift curtain on prices, reveals giant swings for hips, knees and more
#267From best I can gather, there are a handful of High-Level issues. But for the sake of brevity, I'll highlight what I think is the biggest:
The data requisite to make a confident estimate lives in many different parties' databases. To make an estimate, you would need: (1) Full List of Procedures and Services to be done (keywords here: CPT and ICD codes); (2) Contracted Rates between Payer and Provider; (3) Patient's Deductible, OOP Max, and Plan Benefits; (4) List of which services require Pre-auth
(1) lives with the Provider
(3) and (4) live with the Payer
(2) lives in between, but is also a huge problem because it's a many-to-many sort of relationship (many Payers have many contracts (e.g. annually re-negotiated contracts) with many Providers)
Re: Hospitals lift curtain on prices, reveals giant swings for hips, knees and more
#268Earlier quoted context omitted.
South Africa...I looked on the wiki page for it now, and it doesn't do the state of healthcare here justice.
Ok, so we must have very different views of public health if you consider the south african system to work near perfection. I mean, can you really say that given south african HIV prevalence? And that's just an example among many others.
So in the grand-scheme of things, public-health in SA is a failure, with the majority of the public being very poor and unable to afford medical aid. However, the model of the private sector on it's own is something that we've seen works and can probably be scaled up if government stayed out of meddling and "tweaking" it to their social value system. So if all they did was give people money to spend on their preferred medical aid (similar to the proposed "school credits" in the USA), then I think it'd work and the poor would have great access to healthcare despite not being able to afford it on their own.
Unfortunately, the 11% of tax-expenditure being spent on healthcare is not enough to cover such a thing, and they'd have to scale that up. Other things to keep in mind is that they have a ridiculously tiny tax-base here due to the inequality (I.e. something like only 10% of people pay income tax). The other thing to keep in mind is that a lot of the money that tax-payers here pay for, they don't actually use at all. E.g. Police, ambulance, fire services. They might as well be non-existant and defunded because the private sector has picked up the slack. As an example, just the other day I found out their largest city has less than 10 working fire trucks.
Re: Hospitals lift curtain on prices, reveals giant swings for hips, knees and more
#269This was a key thing that needed to happen for a long time. Insurance companies had no bargaining power with hospitals and price opacity helped secure that leverage for the hospitals. This is the only sensible thing I can recall to emerge from the Trump administration and it is a much bigger deal than most people realize.
Re: Hospitals lift curtain on prices, reveals giant swings for hips, knees and more
#270Earlier quoted context omitted.
There are three heads to this beast: hospitals, insurance companies, and drug companies. Each swears it is innocent and points to the other two and calls them the problem, but they are all guilty. You've covered the evil tactics of insurers, but providers absolutely engage in intentional opaqueness, overbilling, and as much screwball behavior as the market will bear. No, the insurance company did not force them to ch…
Over billing is a result of the complexity of the system. Care providers have to hire full-time staff trained to deal with insurance and file claims. Insurers negotiate rates with care providers that put them in a position of having no customers or ones they're paid poorly for. They have responded by playing games with billing and insurance to make ends meet. Is it fair or honest? No but if they suddenly became fair…
I'm sure the overbilling and weaponized opaqueness are plausibly deniable, but I'm just as sure that providers don't mind one bit when they work, just as an insurance company doesn't mind when they discover an excuse to deny coverage. Providers are not "making ends meet," they are testing the limits of how far they can exploit the blank checks they have been written. They are not solely responsible for this mess, but they have a full share of moral and systemic culpability.