Sir Kazuo Ishiguro warns of young authors self-censoring out of 'fear' • Hacker News Board

Re: Sir Kazuo Ishiguro warns of young authors self-censoring out of 'fear'

#261

Post by inglor_cz » Mon, Mar 01, 2021, 7:40 PM UTC

heterodoxxed wrote: post #149

A4ET8a8uTh0 wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isabel Fall seems to be an interesting example: https://reason.com/2020/01/17/canceled-transgender-story/

I'm not clear why this applies, she wasn't dropped by her publisher or blacklisted. She chose to cancel the story herself.

Chiming in from a country that had some classic show trials in the 50s (Czech Republic): the ultimate goal of the show trial was to get the indicted to self-confess and ask for a punishment themselves, in front of the public.

Cancel culture does not have the (physical) death penalty, only a possibly social one, but the impulse seems similar. Once you are put on the show trial, you are expected to grovel, beg, repudiate yourself etc. before being finally dispatched.

Re: Sir Kazuo Ishiguro warns of young authors self-censoring out of 'fear'

#262

Post by hannasanarion » Mon, Mar 01, 2021, 7:40 PM UTC

fallingknife wrote: post #212

throwawaygh wrote: post #174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the general case, you're not allowed to teach at Liberty unless you're a very specific type of conservative christian. A statement of faith is a required component of the faculty application packet. The student code of conduct prohibits homosexual behavior. Passing off Liberty as a bastion of free expression because they invited Sanders to give a speech is beyond disingenuous, and a perfect example of the enormous…

First of all I never said or implied that it was a "bastion of free speech" > In the general case, you're not allowed to teach at Liberty unless you're a very specific type of conservative christian. Let's not pretend that you are allowed to teach at Harvard, at least in certain departments, without a very specific political leaning. And certain other political leanings are not allowed in any department. > A statemen…

> Let's not pretend that you are allowed to teach at Harvard, at least in certain departments, without a very specific political leaning. And certain other political leanings are not allowed in any department.

That's complete nonsense. Harvard's law department is run by Mary Ann Glendon, notorious catholic dominionist and staple of anti-abortion activism in the US.

The "liberal college professor" meme is a right-wing canard, which only holds true as far as people who believe in evidence driven investigation and deep thought, such as those who serve in science departments, are unlikely to form a religious conservative reactionary worldview.

Re: Sir Kazuo Ishiguro warns of young authors self-censoring out of 'fear'

#263

Post by Nasrudith » Mon, Mar 01, 2021, 7:41 PM UTC

Ekaros wrote: post #60

secondcoming wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The easiest way to confront cancel culture is to embrace it and try to get everything cancelled for the most minor of reasons. Hopefully, people will just get fed up and ignore it. The hardest part will be to stop companies bowing to the twitter mob for fear of bad publicity. Also, twitter needs to go. Humans can't handle it.

I wonder if cancelling of really big companies start to happen. Make one misstep in advertising or messaging even in past and then have people attack your partners telling them to stop associating with your brand... I wonder if we ever properly reach that level. And if after a few big attempts social media companies would put stop to that...

That has been the status quo for /centuries/ with boycotting along with sponsors getting pissed off over minute things. It has usually failed against big companies because their supporters vastly outweigh their complaints and even egregious sins are forgiven for being the cheapest or ubiquitous.

Re: Sir Kazuo Ishiguro warns of young authors self-censoring out of 'fear'

#264

Post by SignalNotSecure » Mon, Mar 01, 2021, 7:41 PM UTC

Nasrudith wrote: post #205

SignalNotSecure wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You could post just about anything online and mostly get away with it for a brief period of time ending around 2004 unless you were wholesale drug trafficking out in the open. Those websites were taken down but not very quickly. Sometimes I miss the lulz of the sheep being taken to slaughter by tubgirl and goatse.

What is keeping you from opening up your own shocksites right now? I think it is more cultural zeitgeist - the generation involved with it largely grew out of it and the younger ones don't have the same sort of "culture" to reoccur in the same way. It isn't something you would want to boast about running and would have people thinking ill of you but it doesn't really trigger outrage.

Younger generations don't use the web browser as their main source of entertainment. Their attention and energy has been siloed to the largest media platforms. They enjoy being serfs on the FAANG plantation.

Re: Sir Kazuo Ishiguro warns of young authors self-censoring out of 'fear'

#265

Post by bart_spoon » Mon, Mar 01, 2021, 7:41 PM UTC

stevebmark wrote: post #61

What a clickbait article. There's no mention at all of any specifics of "young authors" censoring their work. Instead it's a vague opinion piece about Ishiguro disliking "cancel culture" in general, because JK Rowling took some heat. It just looks like the same story of "I think cancel culture is the cause of all problems" without any specifics.

Here's an article reviewing a few cancel culture incidents in YA fiction, including an Asian-American author pulling her book prior to publication due to an outraged mob who latched onto the marketing blurb indicated the story was about a fantasy society where people were enslaved on attributes other than skin color. [0]

There was also a notable incident from last year regarding a science fiction short story in Clarkesworld called "I Sexually Identify as an Attack Helicopter". The title was a repurposing of the meme, the work wasn't in any way transphobic, and the author was trans themself. It received very positive critical reviews, but again, due to an outraged Twitter mob, the author pulled their story, as well as yet-to-be published submissions. [1]

Being unaware of something doesn't automatically make it clickbait.

[0] https://www.newyorker.com/books/under-review/in-ya-where-is-...

[1] https://www.newyorker.com/books/under-review/in-ya-where-is-...

Re: Sir Kazuo Ishiguro warns of young authors self-censoring out of 'fear'

#266

Post by heterodoxxed » Mon, Mar 01, 2021, 7:41 PM UTC

inglor_cz wrote: post #261

heterodoxxed wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not clear why this applies, she wasn't dropped by her publisher or blacklisted. She chose to cancel the story herself.

Chiming in from a country that had some classic show trials in the 50s (Czech Republic): the ultimate goal of the show trial was to get the indicted to self-confess and ask for a punishment themselves, in front of the public. Cancel culture does not have the (physical) death penalty, only a possibly social one, but the impulse seems similar. Once you are put on the show trial, you are expected to grovel, beg, repudia…

Don't you think that's just a little bit hysterical, comparing a minority of people complaining on twitter to a government show trial?

Re: Sir Kazuo Ishiguro warns of young authors self-censoring out of 'fear'

#267

Post by heterodoxxed » Mon, Mar 01, 2021, 7:42 PM UTC

A4ET8a8uTh0 wrote: post #166

heterodoxxed wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not clear why this applies, she wasn't dropped by her publisher or blacklisted. She chose to cancel the story herself.

This is exactly what the article discusses and this is also the reason why it is relevant and why it applies. The topic becomes too controversial for a vocal minority and an author "voluntarily" self-censored. I chuckled when you said she did it herself. She did, likely after she was told what would happen otherwise. I chuckled, because I assume you think she is free the way Sartre suggested she is free?

I was responding to this:

| This is truly the dark age of the information era.

and this:

| popular platforms are pressured to not do business with you

Both implies greater forces at play than a small, small minority of voices on twitter making authors feel bad.

Social media gave everyone a voice, what I don't understand is why anyone is surprised that there are vocal micro-minorities like this.

Years ago, they wrote a letter to the editor or the television station. Now they write it on Twitter.

That's not a dark age, and the opportunity to publish is much, much better now than it has ever been in the modern era.

| She did, likely after she was told what would happen otherwise.

Do you have any evidence of this or are you just saying it?

Re: Sir Kazuo Ishiguro warns of young authors self-censoring out of 'fear'

#268

Post by sudosysgen » Mon, Mar 01, 2021, 7:43 PM UTC

dash2 wrote: post #203

RobLach wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hardly so. There's ample evidence that the current is the greatest opportunity for dissenting thought and opinion to have massive reach without much consequence or effort. The idea that we're in a dark age of thought is purely rhetorical and only serves to frame a narrative that further amplifies ideas that would never had a chance to propagate before the information era. Furthermore, we are living in a time of such…

"Dark age of thought" would be excessive (and is maybe a straw man). But there's plenty of people being cancelled: https://www.afaf.org.uk/the-banned-list/ https://sutherlandhousebooks.com/who-cancel/

There have been people getting cancelled in very large number for thousands of years.

Crucially, nowadays, you can still communicate when cancelled. Perhaps to a smaller audience, but this is a necessity because of how human social interactions work.

Re: Sir Kazuo Ishiguro warns of young authors self-censoring out of 'fear'

#269

Post by icelancer » Mon, Mar 01, 2021, 7:44 PM UTC

Mediterraneo10 wrote: post #28

lexapro wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How do you protect your intellectual property? As soon as there is any kind of legal battle your pseudonymity will be gone.

Banksy has managed to preserve his pseudonymity through a corporate structure.

Kinda. Like SSC, if you want to know his identity, you can find it out with a bit of effort.

Re: Sir Kazuo Ishiguro warns of young authors self-censoring out of 'fear'

#270

Post by vertex-four » Mon, Mar 01, 2021, 7:44 PM UTC

bart_spoon wrote: post #223

throwaway5752 wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here's a counterpoint: in the last 150 years we've seen the enslavement and legally mandated racial segregation of African-Americans, same-sex marriages illegal until recently, enormous and largely forgot historical support of Hitler and Franco, a mass shooting of a synagogue amid a resurgence in neonazism, and are only celebrating 100 years of womens' right to vote. It's hard, from the outside of the bubble of this…

Even if it were only white males suffering from cancel culture, this wouldn't be an argument that justifies the modern environment. That said, it isn't simply white, straight, upper class males being targeted: * The dutch translator for Amanda Gorman's inaugural poem quit after backlash due to the fact that they are a white, nonbinary individual rather than a "spoken-word artist, young, female and unapologetically Bl…

Gay men and women being transphobic is... actually fairly common, actually. Being gay does not mean you automatically feel solidarity with trans folk, even if the roots of the gay rights movement involve us. The TERF movement in the U.K. started as a lesbian movement, and the argument that “girls are being forced to be trans” is one of their talking points.

Defending the right of someone to write a book about their thinly veiled hatred is one thing; commenting that you think there’s a good point in it and other people should read it is another.