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Griddy Is Shutting Down

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Re: Griddy Is Shutting Down

#261

Post by opo »

reducesuffering wrote: post #258
opo wrote: post #236

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>... I haven’t had to pay more than $12/month, and that is the fee we are charged by PGE to be hooked into the grid so we can sell them our excess. Wow. If you are only paying $12 a month for access to the grid, you are paying a small fraction of your share of the cost of maintaining the grid. These consumer solar subsidies are a massive subsidy from the poor to the wealthy and really aren't sustainable.

Hardly. My "access" bill is $20/mth, but my panels give $350/yr more to the grid than I use. PGE gives me like $30 of that back at the end of the year. So that $12 / $20 doesn't tell the whole story. They are also likely giving a lot more renewable energy to the grid that isn't compensated and is more like another $30/mth of cost.

>...but my panels give $350/yr more to the grid than I use.

You are likely confusing wholesale and retail prices of electricity. Even just considering solar, the cost for a utility to generate the power itself is likely between 2-4 cents per kilowatt. Most states require the utility to essentially pay the retail rate for electric power for any power generated by rooftop solar since it directly offsets the electrical usage. (Never mind that the electric power might have to be purchased when the utility doesn't want the power.)

Buffet has complained about how this issue:

>...His logic is simple, he wants to have to pay wholesale electricity rates for the energy generated by rooftop solar instead of the same price NV Energy is charging these customers since he says it will penalized customers without solar panels.

https://electrek.co/2016/03/01/warren-buffett-explains-his-l...

So unless you are using the wholesale price for the estimate for the value of the excess electricity generated, you are greatly overestimating its value.

Besides overpaying for the electricity generated by rooftop solar, your $20 access bill is another subsidy. One estimate is that the average yearly cost to maintain the grid is about $750 per customer.

https://blogs.scientificamerican.com/plugged-in/the-u-s-elec...

Re: Griddy Is Shutting Down

#262

Post by ubercow13 »

sephamorr wrote: post #260
ubercow13 wrote: post #185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean, what you're suggesting is what was allowed. And look what happened (OP). Not a particularly surprising outcome.

People lose money in the stock market all the time. This feels similar to me--people bet on the market and were on the wrong side of the trade. I do have sympathy for people who are having financial trouble as a result of their decisions here, but there isn't serious talk about banning speculation on stock markets because some investors might make bad trades.

The trade you're making by being a Griddy customer has essentially unlimited downside risk though. Retail investors can make those types of trades in securities, but they are heavily regulated and it is made very clear just how risky they are. It's also possible for your broker to liquidate your positions very quickly if they margin call you, so they can protect themselves from that downside to an extent. Griddy can't cut off your power in an instant when the spot price jumps.

If a traditional electricity supplier tried to buy all their electricity daily at the spot price and not hedge against any risk, they would quickly go bust. So why is it sensible for consumers to be allowed to do that? Some businesses may buy their energy at wholesale prices through their supplier, say an aluminium smelting factory. But those businesses will have full time traders who are also buying insurance/derivatives to protect against volatility in the market. Consumers should insure themselves against that risk too, by using a more traditional energy supply contract.

Re: Griddy Is Shutting Down

#263

Post by SilasX »

salawat wrote: post #168
asdf333 wrote: post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

there are stories of many empty office buildings fully powered with the lights on throughout the whole thing. Its possible if they were on a more price sensitive system those commercial property owners would have opted to shut off more of the power.

You need to keep in mind what caused that. In Austin's cade, Austin Energy built out way too much off of essential circuits. Office buildings stayed lit because they trunked off a circuit feeding medical centers, emergency services, that type of thing. So the only place Austin Energy could go for load shedding was their residential customer base. Even then; they didn't execute true "rolling" blackouts, because that i…

Yeah, calling them “rolling” was a complete joke. Many people in Austin (like me) lost power for a solid 3 days, while low-rise, wealthy Westlake was almost entirely untouched.

Re: Griddy Is Shutting Down

#264

Post by irrational »

opo wrote: post #261
reducesuffering wrote: post #258

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hardly. My "access" bill is $20/mth, but my panels give $350/yr more to the grid than I use. PGE gives me like $30 of that back at the end of the year. So that $12 / $20 doesn't tell the whole story. They are also likely giving a lot more renewable energy to the grid that isn't compensated and is more like another $30/mth of cost.

>...but my panels give $350/yr more to the grid than I use. You are likely confusing wholesale and retail prices of electricity. Even just considering solar, the cost for a utility to generate the power itself is likely between 2-4 cents per kilowatt. Most states require the utility to essentially pay the retail rate for electric power for any power generated by rooftop solar since it directly offsets the electrical…

Wait, don't we want to penalize customers without solar panels?

Re: Griddy Is Shutting Down

#265

Post by stjohnswarts »

shiftpgdn wrote: post #109
stjohnswarts wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No this is exactly what the market does: crush bad ideas.

Griddy was the only provider that ERCOT seized customers from.

Griddy couldn't handle their financial obligations and ERCOT knew and Griddy knew it. Can you point out other companies with a griddy style business model that are still functioning in Texas because a casual survey on startpage/ddg and I didn't find anthing

Re: Griddy Is Shutting Down

#266

Post by opo »

irrational wrote: post #264
opo wrote: post #261

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>...but my panels give $350/yr more to the grid than I use. You are likely confusing wholesale and retail prices of electricity. Even just considering solar, the cost for a utility to generate the power itself is likely between 2-4 cents per kilowatt. Most states require the utility to essentially pay the retail rate for electric power for any power generated by rooftop solar since it directly offsets the electrical…

Wait, don't we want to penalize customers without solar panels?

>Wait, don't we want to penalize customers without solar panels?

Why do you say that? If the government wants to subsidize solar power, isn't it better to do it in a way that is safer, less expensive and the benefits are shared by all consumers?

Re: Griddy Is Shutting Down

#267

Post by shiftpgdn »

stjohnswarts wrote: post #265
shiftpgdn wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Griddy was the only provider that ERCOT seized customers from.

Griddy couldn't handle their financial obligations and ERCOT knew and Griddy knew it. Can you point out other companies with a griddy style business model that are still functioning in Texas because a casual survey on startpage/ddg and I didn't find anthing

Griddy paid their obligations to ercot in full.
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