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Interest surges in top colleges, while struggling ones scrape for applicants

nytimes.com

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Re: Interest surges in top colleges, while struggling ones scrape for applicants

#261

Post by birdyrooster »

chrisseaton wrote: post #215
birdyrooster wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here is another one: Why do I need to complete a bachelors degree in order to join a CS master program? Why can't they test or interview folks into master's programs? Schools are precluding themselves from good candidates that didn't see the value in bachelor's degrees (often for the reasons found in this thread).

> Here is another one: Why do I need to complete a bachelors degree in order to join a CS master program? Some masters programs let you join with no bachelors. I have a masters and PhD in CS but no bachelors in anything. It wasn't any kind of special programme and I'm not any kind of gifted student either (my grades were quite low.)

Every school that has tried to get me to consider their masters CS programs (despite not realizing I don’t have a bachelors) so far has rejected me on the basis that I don’t have a bachelors. Definitely curious where you went.

Re: Interest surges in top colleges, while struggling ones scrape for applicants

#262

Post by kbos87 »

As someone who never did well with standardized tests, it’s frustrating to see evidence like this of how heavily they are still weighed in the college admissions process, even though it isn’t surprising.

If I were applying to universities today and had otherwise good credentials but difficulties performing on standardized tests like the SATs, I wouldn’t feel an ounce of remorse for trying to cheat in a rigged system.

Re: Interest surges in top colleges, while struggling ones scrape for applicants

#263

Post by mywittyname »

gonehome wrote: post #184
timthorn wrote: post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> a classics degree is the easiest option I'm not sure I'd agree with that assertion.

You can substitute it for English, Communications, or Literature if you prefer.

Elite colleges are weird. At state schools, usually the technical programs are the most rigorous. While elite colleges offer largely identical technical degrees, their most difficult or prestigious course might be something obscure like Philosophy, Politics & Economics.

It's almost like a shibboleth: only those who actually went to the school will recognize the prestige.

Re: Interest surges in top colleges, while struggling ones scrape for applicants

#264

Post by ApolloFortyNine »

borski wrote: post #35
colinmhayes wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Plenty of middle class families making low to mid 100k but not contributing to their children's tuition bill because they live in HCOL area. But yes, low income students don't pay.

“Plenty,” sure. But not a majority or anything. The median family income in the US is something like 68kb

Not too big a fan of screwing over children for their parents making too much money personally.

There's no obligation for parents to pay for their kids education, yet the way the system is set up, you'd think there was.

Re: Interest surges in top colleges, while struggling ones scrape for applicants

#265

Post by albntomat0 »

andrewmcwatters wrote: post #244
sct202 wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The top colleges have very complicated pricing schemes and are basically free to middle and lower income students, for example a student to MIT only pays if their family earns more than $90k a year which is above the median household income of $68k.

I always think about how absurd these pricing models are. Ah yes, if you're living lavishly at $90k per annum you, too, earn the privilege of paying for your education. I suppose at some point someone has to pay. But you're not rich at $90k. And I just don't see many of those households earning between $90-250k a year wanting to pay for such a privilege. From my perspective, you've got to be either very rich, or very…

As I understand it, financial aid isn't all or nothing.

Re: Interest surges in top colleges, while struggling ones scrape for applicants

#266

Post by lotsofpulp »

Jtsummers wrote: post #254
lotsofpulp wrote: post #248

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Young people don't have past work experience, hence the need for them to put themselves through a college to serve as a signal for what they might be capable of. Obviously, once you have work experience and letters of reference, no one cares about your college. But you're not going to have that when you're 18. University is also a social exercise, which can serve to signal that you are okay or at least exposed to the…

I listed relevant training/credentials. 2-year degree programs and 1- or 2-year training programs used to be more common than they are now, and should be restored as a reasonable entry into more white collar jobs. > Obviously, once you have work experience and letters of reference, no one cares about your college. But you're not going to have that when you're 18. That's actually not the case, unfortunately. My wife i…

For a somewhat large company, it may be necessary to come up with hiring standards to save time, one of which might be a minimum of a Bachelors degree, and maybe of a US college for simplicity of verifying the degree. I'm sure if you had the ear of an executive and they really wanted to hire you, they could make an exception, but that solution doesn't scale.

My point was more that the signal an elite college serves is relatively short lived assuming you then get experience at highly regarded employers. For example, once you have worked at a FAANG, no one cares if you went to a low ranked school.

Re: Interest surges in top colleges, while struggling ones scrape for applicants

#267

Post by pisteoff »

awillen wrote: post #7

I think this is generally a good thing. I believe there are really two positive things that can come out of going to college - either you get a name-brand degree that opens doors and gets your resume looked at, or you get useful skills that enable you to go down a particular career path (e.g. CS degree). Obviously in some cases it'll be both. The reality is it's really tough to make any case that a humanities degree…

> people are learning how to value educational degrees based on what they'll actually yield financially and making decisions accordingly.

So why bother learning about the basis of human thought and culture when instead we should be learning about how to make the next iPhone app that won't matter in 6 months. Anything to maximize those profits, right? People be damned, it's the bottom line that matters! Got it.

Only around 25% of people have jobs related to their degree. I'd rather be able read closely, think clearly and critically, and synthesize information then learn about algorithms and data structures. STEM degrees do not give you those skills to the same degree.

I can learn CS crap without a degree program. Tech stuff is easy, people are hard. A world full of STEM majors sounds boring as fuck.

Re: Interest surges in top colleges, while struggling ones scrape for applicants

#268

Post by drak0n1c »

awillen wrote: post #7

I think this is generally a good thing. I believe there are really two positive things that can come out of going to college - either you get a name-brand degree that opens doors and gets your resume looked at, or you get useful skills that enable you to go down a particular career path (e.g. CS degree). Obviously in some cases it'll be both. The reality is it's really tough to make any case that a humanities degree…

The market is heavily subsidized, to the tune of the annual $120+ billion in Federally guaranteed grants and loans that the DOE boasts of being provided every year in its public letters. The loaning of such large sums to teenagers who don't yet understand basic financial cost/benefit analysis severely distorts the market.

When evaluating which university to attend, they are choosing to spend an extra $20k+ a year on the school with more luxurious facilities, better departmental marketing, bigger party environment, or slightly higher brand recognition. It's easy to make that decision when you haven't earned that kind of money yet. High-end schools interpret this as a sign of fair sustainable market valuation, and increase their spending on administrators and facilities even more. Other schools follow, desperate to compete. Sky-high tuitions are the result of decades of compounding inflation by subsidy.

https://www2.ed.gov/about/reports/annual/2019report/fsa-repo...

Re: Interest surges in top colleges, while struggling ones scrape for applicants

#269

Post by fma »

wikibob wrote: post #222
beastman82 wrote: post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I suspect this is not generally accurate. I have an MS in CS and had neither recs nor a GRE score

Where did you go?

Georgia Tech's Online Master of Science requires neither GRE nor letters from professors. I got my letters from my former managers. Of course you can get them from professors, if you want...they want letters from anyone who can vouch for your competency and ability to complete the program.

Re: Interest surges in top colleges, while struggling ones scrape for applicants

#270

Post by dragonwriter »

ApolloFortyNine wrote: post #264
borski wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

“Plenty,” sure. But not a majority or anything. The median family income in the US is something like 68kb

Not too big a fan of screwing over children for their parents making too much money personally. There's no obligation for parents to pay for their kids education, yet the way the system is set up, you'd think there was.

> There's no obligation for parents to pay for their kids education

There's no (as yet generally accepted) obligation for anyone else to pay for young adults higher education. Society has generally chosen to subsidize some costs for young people who seek such subsidy using formulas which assume that parents of means will also do so, but this does not reflect an obligation of parents to do so.

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