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Ten year study: No link between violent video games and aggressive behavior

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Re: Ten year study: No link between violent video games and aggressive behavior

#261

Post by GrinningFool »

eMGm4D0zgUAVXc7 wrote: post #198
eeZah7Ux wrote: post #181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are mixing 2 different topics. Ramping authoritarianism and policing is one problem. > "allowed to defend themselves" > "punching my bully" ...and this is what most bullies would say. No, bullying cannot be solved by the victims, otherwise it would not be a problem in the first place. Bullying needs to be stopped by the school - and without calling in armed bullies to stop the bullies.

> No, bullying cannot be solved by the victims As someone who has punched multiple bullies into the face, I can tell you it does stop it quite efficiently. Two of them basically instantly switched to never again daring to acknowledge that I even exist, for the remaining >5 years of being on the same school. The remainder wasn't smart enough to stop instantly and thus got multiple beatings. There's always the one kid…

This method works for the people who are able to do it (ability, personality, temperament). But it tends to reinforce the idea that those who can't take these steps somehow deserve to be bullied.

Re: Ten year study: No link between violent video games and aggressive behavior

#262

Post by sonthonax »

Does anyone think that psychological research into videogames and violence is an epistemological dead end? In the same way that saying books cause violence is also practically meaningless.

Societal violence isn't as simple as neurological desensitization to stimuli. To take Call of Duty for example, the violence is so incredibly unrealistic, the only thing I could imagine it desensitise someone to is the cocophenious stimuli of Call of Duty itself; the actual reality of soldiering is too corporeally miserable to form any meaningful connexion between the comfortable experience of playing a video game. However, Call of Duty creates a very reactionary world where you get to be part of the machinations of a barely legal extra-judicial dark operations. While I do not think it is obliged to do so, it never really comments on the morality of what you are doing, as you are always fighting evil - and this evil happens to be either Russian, Brown, or Marxist. It's not scientific to draw the connexion between videogames (as literature) and violence, but you'd have to be deliberately obtuse to deny that ideas (even within videogames) effect change.

No one today talks about opera as a medium being a catalyst for violence, but opera was a surprisingly common source of riots; sometimes even igniting revolutions. Following the July Revolution in France, the Belgians enthused by 'La muette de Portici' and its nationalist idealism, rioted and occupied the government buildings, and splitting from the Kingdom of the Netherlands.

Anyone who claimed it was the soprano's vibrato rather than the librettist's lyrics would be dismissed as mad today. In a way it's similar to claiming that a red pulsating vignette in COD causes bloodthirsty violence. However, it's completely valid to critique games as literature that encourages dehumanisation that leads to violence.

Re: Ten year study: No link between violent video games and aggressive behavior

#263

Post by 6gvONxR4sf7o »

yazboo wrote: post #80

I have noticed that many social science articles posted on Hacker News bring out critical comments about study design, doubts about the strength of the study's conclusions, that kind of thing. This submission, on the other hand, is a link to some kind of gaming news website, which links to an abstract for an article in a Cyberpsychology (?) journal which costs $60 to access, and there is widespread and uncritical agr…

We're all bayesians in some sense. If you show me weak evidence for what I alreaddy believe, I'll just believe it even more strongly. I'll argue for it, but mostly based off my prior belief. If you show me weak evidence for what I don't believe, I'll adjust my disbelief of it just a little downwards. I'll argue against it, but mostly based off my prior belief.

I think you're seeing an important difference between acceptance of a conclusion versus agreement with it. I doubt this study is changing anyone's minds.

Re: Ten year study: No link between violent video games and aggressive behavior

#264

Post by Sodman »

rbosinger wrote: post #84
alexfrydl wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unless you mean right now because of carona, I'm not sure what about “this day and age” is more dangerous than when you grew up.

There are more people around. More cars. Where I live, there's about 1000x more needles than when I grew up. Way more crazy people roaming around. Maybe statistically they aren't causing any problems, but they sure harass me enough. Especially when it comes to "playing in the woods". The woods around town are the worst place now. We used to find camps and places where teenagers would party here and there but now when…

You should check out "Angels of our better nature" by Steven Pinker - it's a fascinating book about the decline of violence, both over the course of human history, and recently.

The local woods by you may indeed be worse than it was during your childhood, but overall as a society we are doing better.

Re: Ten year study: No link between violent video games and aggressive behavior

#265

Post by duce332 »

"Participant families were recruited through “a large north-western city” beginning in 2007 (Wave 1) via telephone directories and required to complete questionnaires. 65% were Caucasian, 12% black and 19% multi-ethnic, 4% other. Families of lower socioeconomic status were underrepresented as part of the initial sample group and therefore needed recruitment via referrals and fliers to add and diversify the sample group."

The sample size of the study in the article is way too small in my opinion to apply to the whole US population, I wish they didn't put it behind a paywall because they still might have some interesting insights on the local/regional scale :(. They mention the only city used in the study is "a large north-western city". Doing some back of the envelope math I just used Seattle as an example.

- Seattle has ~800k people today and ~610k people 10 years ago. Source: https://worldpopulationreview.com/us-cities/seattle-wa-popul... - Today there are ~2.5 billion gamers in the world. ~27% of those gamers are under 18 (all genders) so ~650 million kids play video games. Source(Not sure how accurate but assuming on the same order of magnitude): https://techjury.net/blog/video-game-demographics/

At best if their sample size was the entire city of Seattle that would be ~1% of kid gamers. Their real sample size is probably at least an order of magnitude less than the size of the city so I am interested in the study though just not $60 interested :(.

Re: Ten year study: No link between violent video games and aggressive behavior

#266

Post by apta »

noobermin wrote: post #260
apta wrote: post #256

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The overvaluing and focus on sex of being something amazing or interesting. Because there are severe consequences to it, pregnancies and STDs being just the start. Yes, it is an amazing thing, and it is not overvalued at all. It's one of the strongest drives we have as humans, and it should be controlled, otherwise it will lead to chaos.

There are no consequences to dismembering people and killing scores of them? The point is comparing sex to violence. Violence definitely has terrible consequences, which is why it is socially taboo.

Because sex is something that most people are going to engage in at one point or another, it's part of human nature. Killing and murdering isn't acceptable.

Re: Ten year study: No link between violent video games and aggressive behavior

#267

Post by stakkur »

It's interesting that we find links between environment, habits, and behavior in every other facet of life, but--somehow, repeated simulations of visceral violence (violent video games) are an exception.

This isn't a simple thing to measure. Players of violent video games have diverse environments, social supports, and other factors. These mitigate the effects of playing these kinds of games; in other words, while the games may encourage violent behavior, person A with a stable environment and strong social supports may not be effected in the same way (or enough to measure). Person B with a different environment and fewer supports may exhibit violent behavior. Some studies may claim to account for these, but that should be met with skepticism and rigorous discussion.

Re: Ten year study: No link between violent video games and aggressive behavior

#268

Post by vlunkr »

afandian wrote: post #148
vlunkr wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would argue that in most games, the violence is not the goal, just the mechanics. You're either competing with other players, trying to fulfill a quest, surviving the zombie apocalypse, etc. Very few games are really "murder simulators" and when they do come along, even if they are meant to be satirical or something, they are usually controversial.

I'm not necessarily suggesting that the participant in the simulation is trying to do nothing more than commit acts of violence. But if the goal is predicated on committing violence, and can't be achieved without it, then I don't think it's logical to dismiss the violent aspect. To transpose the argument to reality, a serial killer may see the act of killing as a neutral act pursuant to a goal they consider important…

Would you make the same argument about a war film? Violence is a necessity there, but it doesn't mean people want to commit or see real violence, or be in a war.

Also, you could just as easily transpose it to something tame in reality. Kids like to put on capes and swing sticks around like swords, not because they want to kill stuff, but because it's fun to play pretend. Turns out grown ups like to do this too, we just call it cosplay and video games.

Re: Ten year study: No link between violent video games and aggressive behavior

#270

Post by kiliancs »

diarmuid wrote: post #227
longdefeat wrote: post #215

Earlier quoted context omitted.

-we should ask "what can I do that has a positive impact?"- That's part of the point of this essay that was on HN last year: "Fortnite and the Good Life," which seems relevant here. https://theconvivialsociety.substack.com/p/the-convivial-soc...

headshot === positive impact they are just games and most (non crazy) people understand that like hansel and gretel when they push the witch in the oven - its fiction and not intended to be a guide to life

I think you might be underestimating the fragility of the human being in so many aspects (2020 might be trying to teach us something in that regard). Consider how alcohol has a very negative (often disastrous) effect in so many lives, even though most people start drinking thinking they understand how alcohol is going to affect them and that they can keep it under control.
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