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More than 1,200 Google workers condemn firing of AI scientist Timnit Gebru

theguardian.com

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Re: More than 1,200 Google workers condemn firing of AI scientist Timnit Gebru

#261

Post by amilios »

civilized wrote: post #179

According to a seemingly credible account from a former employee, Timnit terrorized a Google Brain manuscript discussion forum with unfounded accusations of racist disregard for her contributions https://www.reddit.com/r/MachineLearning/comments/k77sxz/com... The thread is filled with agreeing comments from many people who seem to be ex-Google and who had access to the relevant thread.

This is crazy, I'm not sure why people aren't taking this more into account. By all accounts Timnit was an extremely toxic person to work with. Sure, perhaps she shouldn't have been fired for this paper, Google probably saw an opportunity to remove her that wouldn't be a PR nightmare for them. But regardless, it's hard for me personally to see them as being in the wrong given Timnit's history.

Re: More than 1,200 Google workers condemn firing of AI scientist Timnit Gebru

#262

Post by civilized »

amilios wrote: post #261
civilized wrote: post #179

According to a seemingly credible account from a former employee, Timnit terrorized a Google Brain manuscript discussion forum with unfounded accusations of racist disregard for her contributions https://www.reddit.com/r/MachineLearning/comments/k77sxz/com... The thread is filled with agreeing comments from many people who seem to be ex-Google and who had access to the relevant thread.

This is crazy, I'm not sure why people aren't taking this more into account. By all accounts Timnit was an extremely toxic person to work with. Sure, perhaps she shouldn't have been fired for this paper, Google probably saw an opportunity to remove her that wouldn't be a PR nightmare for them. But regardless, it's hard for me personally to see them as being in the wrong given Timnit's history.

Gebru's brand of Twitter woke-scoldery is taken for granted these days. Par for the course. We all know the tired rhetoric that will be trotted out to defend it, so much so that we could write it ourselves.

A member of the corporate elite criticizing, let alone firing, a black woman for race baiting is now beyond the pale. So they got rid of her indirectly, by making her working conditions unappealing enough to induce her to quit. Too bad some Director Karen of Whatever lost her nerve and ended it on her terms rather than Gebru's. No finesse!

Re: More than 1,200 Google workers condemn firing of AI scientist Timnit Gebru

#263

Post by IshKebab »

jlokier wrote: post #93
miked85 wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> She offered to resign on a particular schedule It is not out of the ordinary at all for companies to walk people out on the day of resignation. The company is not required or even expected to abide by whatever schedule is presented to them.

If the employee says "I'm giving you 1 month formal notice of resignation", and the company responds with "effective immediately you are terminated without pay or benefits", at that point it's not a resignation any more, it's a termination. In most countries (which are not "at will"), I believe if the employee had not breached their contract they could claim wrongful termination in this scenario and likely be awarded…

Are you sure she isn't being paid for her notice period?

Re: More than 1,200 Google workers condemn firing of AI scientist Timnit Gebru

#264

Post by freshhawk »

adnzzzzZ wrote: post #260
freshhawk wrote: post #258

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The cognitive dissonance is that a huge number of highly respected people in the field, and coworkers, said "yeah, this was racist bullshit", and the actual paper in question has been seen by a lot of people by now. But if you are committed to the stance that racism doesn't exist and this is all a grand SJW conspiracy then you have to grasp at straws to ignore the overwhelming number of experts disagreeing with you.

I don't believe in experts. They have no power to change my mind about any social issue whatsoever. So them saying "this is racist" means nothing to me. There is no cognitive dissonance. You're projecting it into me because you think I think like you, that I care about what experts have to say, when I don't.

It was a technical question about the predictive power of language models, the biases encoded in them and the results of their use in a large system like all of Google's connected products.

But I guess to your particular faith-based ideology the mention of race makes it a "social issue"? Anyway I'm sorry I misclassified you and in the process insulted your religious beliefs. That wasn't my intention.

Re: More than 1,200 Google workers condemn firing of AI scientist Timnit Gebru

#265

Post by adnzzzzZ »

freshhawk wrote: post #264
adnzzzzZ wrote: post #260

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't believe in experts. They have no power to change my mind about any social issue whatsoever. So them saying "this is racist" means nothing to me. There is no cognitive dissonance. You're projecting it into me because you think I think like you, that I care about what experts have to say, when I don't.

It was a technical question about the predictive power of language models, the biases encoded in them and the results of their use in a large system like all of Google's connected products. But I guess to your particular faith-based ideology the mention of race makes it a "social issue"? Anyway I'm sorry I misclassified you and in the process insulted your religious beliefs. That wasn't my intention.

Thank you for your apology. My religion is very important to me and it really bothers me when people think I care about experts. Universities and other buildings of high density intellectual activity should be thoroughly demolished with tanks & tractors (and without the people in them, of course), the charade has gone on for too long.

Re: More than 1,200 Google workers condemn firing of AI scientist Timnit Gebru

#266

Post by bra-ket »

muglug wrote: post #14
paperdropper wrote: post #4

A draft copy of the disputed paper was posted over in Reddit, if this is of interest to anyone: https://old.reddit.com/r/MachineLearning/comments/k77sxz/d_t... https://gofile.io/d/WfcxoF

Whether or not I agree with the conclusions, that’s exactly the sort of paper one might expect to be written by someone whose job title includes the words “ethics” and “AI”. I’m not sure what Google expected.

the paper was not the problem, her attitude & reaction to peer review was the problem - giving ultimatums, demanding to disclose names of the reviewers, and broadcasting emails to entire team calling for sabotage.

Her behavior fits the definition of 'toxic employee', it was unprofessional by any standard.

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