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M1 Macs: Truth and Truthiness

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Re: M1 Macs: Truth and Truthiness

#261

Post by wmf »

machello13 wrote: post #223
whywhywhywhy wrote: post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The justification that 16GB is "enough" from the Apple blogger clique like Gruber is ridiculous. Even if it is "enough" it's still what my MacBook Pro I bought 6 years ago shipped with for several hundred dollars less than this one. Why are we giving Apple a pass on RAM being stuck at 8GB and SSD being stuck at 128GB (only very recently bumping to 256) for almost a decade. Not to mention some of us get stuck on 8GB 1…

If you need more than 16GB just... buy one of the other MacBook Pros? I really don't see what the problem is.

Some people wish they could get the performance of M1 and 32GB RAM and four Thunderbolt ports. They will get it eventually but it's a shame it's not available yet.

Re: M1 Macs: Truth and Truthiness

#262

Post by greendave »

simonh wrote: post #130
nix23 wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Those machines are just standing around in their underwear now because the M1 stole all their pants. Not sure what shitty machine hes talking about, but my threadripper's are not impressed with some 4 core M1.

He's talking about the vast majority of PC chips sold today, who's power consumption / performance / thermal ratios just got marmalised. You're quite right, your machine and in fact everyone else's are still just as good as they were a few weeks ago. I got an Intel 5K iMac in the summer and I'm still very happy with it. I need to be able to run windows and Linux in VMs so M1 isn't for me right now. It's no for you ei…

Sure, and when they do, we can have that conversation.

But claiming that what’s available today from Apple is of great interest to the high performance market is jumping the gun.

There’s also the fact that cost (including peripherals and support) and software availability, not performance and efficiency, are what guide most PC purchases. The M1’s advantages are far less pronounced in those areas.

Re: M1 Macs: Truth and Truthiness

#263

Post by nickelcitymario »

neogodless wrote: post #132
nickelcitymario wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How is this different than any other OS? My preferred software is Mac or *nix based, so by your logic: To be a "Windows user" you have to give up the software you prefer, and use the software Windows prefers you to use. And you don't get to be unhappy if the software you prefer doesn't run OK?

I can't tell but I think you're making my point. As a Windows user, I can absolutely be unhappy if software I prefer does not run. If someone comes around and says "but that software was originally for Mac... you aren't allowed to expect it to run well on Windows! A real Windows user wouldn't complain about that software." And if the software I prefer runs better on macOS, I have a good reason to switch away from Win…

Oh, I think I completely misunderstood your original comment.

Re: M1 Macs: Truth and Truthiness

#264

Post by AsyncAwait »

ogre_codes wrote: post #254
ekianjo wrote: post #208

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But I think the overarching point is true: now desktop and laptop makers can't just pretend that having a hot and/or slow, clunky, noisy x86-based architecture is just a fact of life. I hope and expect that it'll help create a new generation of ARM-based laptops and maybe even desktops that will run cool and smooth. Be careful what you wish for. X86 is the most open architecture right now. ARM, on the other hand, h…

> X86 is the most open architecture right now. x86 is not "Open" in any fashion. You can't license x86 even for a fee, let alone free. While ARM isn't open either, it is by comparison far more available to license at reasonable cost. > ARM, on the other hand, has locked bootloaders It also has open/ unlocked boot loaders. One of the advantages of licensable technology like this is you can have a lot of different arch…

> x86 is not "Open" in any fashion. You can't license x86 even for a fee, let alone free.

OP is not talking about being able to manufacture x86 CPUs kind of open, that's useless for most folks.

They're talking about being able to install any OS, drivers being fairly universal, no device specific out of tree kernel patches for the vast majority of PCs, no device trees etc.

Re: M1 Macs: Truth and Truthiness

#266

Post by snazz »

Toutouxc wrote: post #229
the_af wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If I can get it to run Linux not on a VM, but natively and without coexisting with macOS at all, then it'll be good enough for me!... ...except I cannot afford a macbook. The one I'm using now was paid for by my employer. More generally, I'd love to see fast ARM platforms not built by Apple.

I don't think you really pay that much extra for an Apple machine, especially for the M1 ones. I'm afraid that when/if fast ARM alternatives arrive, they will probably cost 80-100 % of what the MacBooks cost. So basically, if you can't afford a MacBook today, you won't be able to afford a comparable high-end ARM offering from, say, Dell.

One big difference is that MacBooks (and Apple products in general) retain their value far better than any other computer brand. If you're looking at the used market to save money, a Dell looks way cheaper because it's depreciated far more than the Apple machine.

Re: M1 Macs: Truth and Truthiness

#267

Post by Miraste »

giorgioz wrote: post #255

The fact that reviewers of M1 chips are also saying things like "Safari is faster than Chrome" or "iOS is faster than Android" do make the other statements on M1 lose credibility. "Safari is faster than Chrome" NOPE Now that IE is gone, Safari is the new IE by being the last not-ever-green browser always behind in features. So many benchmarks again and again proved Chrome and Firefox to be faster than Safari. "iOS is…

> So many benchmarks again and again proved Chrome and Firefox to be faster than Safari.

In the benchmarks I've seen (https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2020/11/google-chrome-is-ava...) and the ones I've run myself, Safari annihilates Chrome.

> Pick the top Android devices vs iPhones and you will see it's a tough race with no clear winner.

No, all Android phones are clearly slower than the iPhone. https://www.tomsguide.com/news/iphone-12-benchmarks-this-des...

Re: M1 Macs: Truth and Truthiness

#268

Post by egsmi »

wk_end wrote: post #205
ChrisLTD wrote: post #200

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The numbers show that the other chips are slower, but they don't show that they are "unusable".

x86 chips aren’t “unusable” either, and if these other ARM chips wanted to compete in the desktop space they’d be just as - or more - “hot and/or slow, clunky, noisy”. ISA just doesn’t matter half as much as microarchitecture.

And those x86 are only still usable because M1 hasn’t been out long enough for the new software, that needs the speed to be “useable”, to be written.

Re: M1 Macs: Truth and Truthiness

#269

Post by matwood »

romanoderoma wrote: post #242
alwillis wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

but my threadripper's are not impressed with some 4 core M1 The M1 has 8 CPU cores, 8 GPU cores and 16 Neural Engine cores. It also runs at 10 watts and maxes out at 24 watts. A Threadripper starts at over 100 watts…

But honestly, does it matter? People buying a threadripper today don't care about it. What matters to them it's the performance, my gf is a 3d artist, she doesn't care if some cpu consumes more or less power than another (when I say she doesn't care I mean she doesn't even know that CPU have very different power requirements), she needs the fastest gear she can buy on her budget. Apple M1s are not it. There are many…

Laptops have outsold desktops every year for the last decade+. The M1, being a mobile friendly chip, is addressing the larger market. People may not care about power usage from the wall, but they do care about battery life.

Also, the fact that the M1 is even being mentioned along with a desktop powerhouse like the threadripper says it all. The M1 is the lowest end mobile Apple Silicon. We know higher end mobile chips are coming along with desktop ones. The M1 has put all the chip manufacturers on notice, much the same the way the iPhone did (to the point RIM thought Apple was lying about the iPhone because they thought the device was impossible).

Re: M1 Macs: Truth and Truthiness

#270

Post by free2OSS »

simias wrote: post #100

I've never owned a Mac and don't intend to own one but I'm very happy with this M1 move, mainly for the reasons highlighted in the introduction to the article: >M1 Macs embarrass all other PCs — all Intel-based Macs, including automobile-priced Mac Pros, and every single machine running Windows or Linux. Those machines are just standing around in their underwear now because the M1 stole all their pants. I think it's…

The whole narrative has changed over the last few weeks too.

"Fastest chip" uhh well no..

"Fast for this one thing", yeah it's 0.1s faster opening that program no one ever said was slow.

"It has good battery life"

So this is the new narrative? Are nerds constantly fighting back against Apple marketing and they are adapting?

Usually their marketing team just insists over and over. Maybe because this is actually measurable (unlike privacy and security) their legal team is holding the marketing team back.

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