The psychology behind ‘revenge bedtime procrastination’ • Hacker News Board

Re: The psychology behind ‘revenge bedtime procrastination’

#261

Post by DHPersonal » Wed, Dec 02, 2020, 2:49 PM UTC

watwut wrote: post #257

bigbonch wrote: post #229

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't have much of an opinion on generational living, but could you elaborate on how it guarantees women disproportionately end up with kin work? Also I find it interesting that the institution of motherhood is completely removed from the modern day narrative of empowerment. As long as it is fairly left up to the woman to choose, why would choosing motherhood not be empowering?

You choose motherhood by having kids. You choose fatherhood by having kids. Do you feel empowered by fatherhood? What does it even means? If no, then that is the answer of why would choosing motherhood not be empowering. Empowering means: "make (someone) stronger and more confident, especially in controlling their life and claiming their rights". Having child does not really make that and I dont see how it should mak…

I have found fatherhood empowering but did not go into it with that expectation. Fatherhood has opened me to new emotional expression and capabilities that I lacked beforehand and I now speak for more than just me when I look for new work or increase my responsibility at work, since any pay or benefit improvements go directly to the family. Fatherhood added more responsibility to my day, which ends up feeling like I have more power, even if I traded some of my personal freedom in order to obtain it. I'm not sure if that means I actually have been disempowered; if so, my more powerful life before marriage and childhood felt less fulfilling.

Re: The psychology behind ‘revenge bedtime procrastination’

#262

Post by arwineap » Wed, Dec 02, 2020, 3:39 PM UTC

godot wrote: post #192

thesuitonym wrote: post #184

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have kids that same age, and our bedtime is 8:00. Usually they're asleep by 9 but there have definitely been days where they are up and fighting until well past 10. Certainly the gp was exaggerating, but just because my kids are in bed doesn't mean it's my time. 8-9 is lost policing actually being in bed almost every day. That said, I agree more with you, because as much as I like to say, "oh I could be doing x or…

Bed time used to be 8:30pm but a few weeks ago she just turned the age where she absolutely needed someone to be beside her until she falls asleep. All hell breaks loose if we don't, and I've thought about implementing cry-it-out but looking at her mode of crying I'm not sure that's healthy. Anyway, I'm staying with her for 2 hours until she falls asleep (she does take that long) because my spouse already cares for h…

You didn't mention how old, but I want to re-emphasize putting in the investment now. This problem will only get worse and the joys of parenting a child on a routine are vast

Re: The psychology behind ‘revenge bedtime procrastination’

#263

Post by twirlock » Wed, Dec 02, 2020, 4:44 PM UTC

People need to stop letting themselves be conned into treating their job as a moral impetus while their employers are solely profit motivated. It is literally propaganda when you internalize a corporation's "values" while the people at the top are making 10x as much money and would still gladly pay you less to work more.

Re: The psychology behind ‘revenge bedtime procrastination’

#264

Post by jpdaigle » Wed, Dec 02, 2020, 9:03 PM UTC

rimiform wrote: post #202

godot wrote: post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The thing is for many other people it's not about enjoying work or not. I enjoy my job a lot, it's the best one I've had in the past decade. I also have a toddler. After I finish work promptly at 5 (sometimes before, and I work from home), it's a non-stop series of "work" bathing for the kid, either playing with the kid (while my spouse cooks) or I cook (and she plays with the kid, so either way it's busy work for bo…

I'm gonna sound like an asshole either way, so let's just get it over with. Obviously I feel sorry for everyone who suffers for whatever reason, but I find it really difficult not to feel as if parents have very little right to complain about the suffering they willingly brought on themselves. I mean, it's not like it's a mystery that childbirth is painful and that raising children is a mostly miserable affair. It's…

> it's not like it's a mystery that childbirth is painful and that raising children is a mostly miserable affair

As someone with toddlers I'll take a stab at an explanation: we thought we went in with eyes open, but it turns out we (I?) _massively_ under-estimated how hard this level of sustained effort would be in the long run because there's no real analog for it in your pre-parenting experience.

Everyone says raising toddlers is hard work. You go into it accepting "sure, it's super hard work, I know what that's like, I can do it!". We thought of hard work by drawing from experience, thinking back to difficult degree programs, or working for a fledgling startup, etc. But in all of that experience, after crunch time, you always get to take an afternoon off once in a while, a couple hours here and there, even if it's just an evening of doing nothing every few weeks.

Nobody had "Well, what if there's a pandemic and you just can't drop off your toddlers at a sitter/parent to get a few hours break? For an entire year?" on their threat radar.

We simply didn't know what that child-rearing work looked like if it went on for months without a break. While you're sleep deprived. While your relationships with a co-parent might be frayed by stress, exhaustion, and cabin fever.

It's become very tiresome to use the word "unprecedented" in 2020, but it's still the word that fits.

Re: The psychology behind ‘revenge bedtime procrastination’

#265

Post by nonbirithm » Wed, Dec 02, 2020, 10:09 PM UTC

> In Matthew Walker’s book Why We Sleep: Unlocking the Power of Sleep and Dreams, the neuroscientist is blunt: “The shorter your sleep, the shorter your life span.”

I find it sad that people are still quoting this book. Many claims in this book have been debunked online[0]. The misinformation may even cause people to get too much sleep causing different kinds of issues.

As for me, this has caused me to come back with an impression of "we don't really know why we sleep." I wish there was a definitive source of information on this as popular as this book, but which is actually reputable. Now I just end up doubting my sleep patterns, waking up naturally and still being left unsure why I feel tired.

[0] https://guzey.com/books/why-we-sleep/

Re: The psychology behind ‘revenge bedtime procrastination’

#266

Post by justasidenote1 » Thu, Dec 03, 2020, 2:43 AM UTC

michaelleslie wrote: post #205

toyg wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I do the same. It’s typically a symptom that I don’t really care for the job I’m supposed to do. When I do care, I can barely brush my teeth and I’m right at work. When I don’t care, the morning is full-on procrastination; the boring but necessary stuff gets done mid-afternoon, often out of restlessness. I reckon something happens at the physical level that triggers a tiny bit of adrenaline in the afternoon, so I get…

Logging in to note that these are classic ADHD symptoms, should you want to investigate that aspect of your psyche further.

Created a throwaway to say that as someone being treated for ADHD as of recently, 100% this. Every day at work for years had been doing exactly what the GP describes. If I'm really interested in the work, I'm all in and focused. But when I'm not, I push off every task that can be pushed off as far as possible. And the overwhelming majority of the time, it's the latter. To the point that I've sat at my desk quietly questioning my career choice dozens of times.

Please look into this, GP.

Re: The psychology behind ‘revenge bedtime procrastination’

#267

Post by 0_gravitas » Thu, Dec 03, 2020, 2:55 AM UTC

tyre wrote: post #172

godot wrote: post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The thing is for many other people it's not about enjoying work or not. I enjoy my job a lot, it's the best one I've had in the past decade. I also have a toddler. After I finish work promptly at 5 (sometimes before, and I work from home), it's a non-stop series of "work" bathing for the kid, either playing with the kid (while my spouse cooks) or I cook (and she plays with the kid, so either way it's busy work for bo…

When I read things like this, it makes me not want to have children. From friends, it doesn’t sound like your experience is much different. I’m sure you’re biased and it’s culturally unacceptable (to say the least) to say that you’d rather not have had kids, but I wonder how often you think about that loss of individuality? Maybe it’s that what you’d do were you to have the time wouldn’t be as “productive” in a broad…

I feel very similarly to you. As time goes on I feel myself becoming more and more of an Anti-Natalist, especially as I reflect on my childhood. It seems like having kids is just a very instinctual/romantic thing that people don't really try to resist, and oft not thinking about the implications that come with it (and I certainly don't just mean loss of time and autonomy). I find it very strange, and somewhat disappointing in a way. Having a kid just because you "want" to feels kind of perverse to me.

Re: The psychology behind ‘revenge bedtime procrastination’

#268

Post by [deleted] » Thu, Dec 03, 2020, 6:22 AM UTC

bradlys wrote: post #247

criddell wrote: post #237

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You've been working for 7 years. Has your professional network started to bear any fruit?

Not one fucking bit. I start from ground zero every time. Doesn't matter, really. The companies I want to work at - referrals don't really get you that far unless you know a very particular person.

[deleted]

Re: The psychology behind ‘revenge bedtime procrastination’

#269

Post by malux85 » Thu, Dec 03, 2020, 6:34 AM UTC

bradlys wrote: post #247

criddell wrote: post #237

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You've been working for 7 years. Has your professional network started to bear any fruit?

Not one fucking bit. I start from ground zero every time. Doesn't matter, really. The companies I want to work at - referrals don't really get you that far unless you know a very particular person.

Your professional network is not yielding after 7 YEARS!?

If that's the case the problem is definitely you.

Re: The psychology behind ‘revenge bedtime procrastination’

#270

Post by croon » Thu, Dec 03, 2020, 12:52 PM UTC

tyre wrote: post #172

godot wrote: post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The thing is for many other people it's not about enjoying work or not. I enjoy my job a lot, it's the best one I've had in the past decade. I also have a toddler. After I finish work promptly at 5 (sometimes before, and I work from home), it's a non-stop series of "work" bathing for the kid, either playing with the kid (while my spouse cooks) or I cook (and she plays with the kid, so either way it's busy work for bo…

When I read things like this, it makes me not want to have children. From friends, it doesn’t sound like your experience is much different. I’m sure you’re biased and it’s culturally unacceptable (to say the least) to say that you’d rather not have had kids, but I wonder how often you think about that loss of individuality? Maybe it’s that what you’d do were you to have the time wouldn’t be as “productive” in a broad…

You will likely never get a parent saying they wish they didn't have kids, for the reasons you stated, regardless of how the "what if"-scenario would look like.

I've always known I wanted kids, but knew I wasn't ready through my entire 20s. I have older siblings with kids of their own, and I'm on the younger side of the extended family, so I was around a lot of kids regardless, watching the different dynamics.

I was conceptually well aware of the hard work it involved, the priorities needed etc, and to the best of my abilities set my own bar for that.

We had our first kid a few years into our 30s, very much by choice. I think it's very difficult to conceptualize it through others kids. I was never really good with kids in general, but I believe (and have no reason not to) that I'm very good with my kids (in general, there will always be bad days behind the photo ops).

I can't shut myself in my office for 8 hours doing a project, gaming, watching movies or just nap.

I obviously miss that on some level, but the reason I can't do that (at least until they're old enough not to want to hang out with me) is of such value that I don't mind really. And that part is something at least I had no way of conceptualizing before having kids.

Absolutely don't have kids if you don't want to. I like to imagine I have a finely tuned radar to spot those families instantly, and it's not about a love thing, because I think most parents do regardless, but about patience/acceptance that this was your choice, and all of the great parts make up for it thousandfold.

I'm not a different person now, I'm just a person with baggier eyes, who frets a little less about things that don't really matter. That can be done with or without kids, I think it's merely that the latter forces the issue.

But I still binged Queen's Gambit with our youngest using me as a glorified crib.

Not sure this rant had a point, but try to shut out friends, society, biology and just ask yourself whether you want kids. If you do it'll be great, and if not that'll be great too.