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Could a Peasant Defeat a Knight in Battle?

medievalists.net

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Re: Could a Peasant Defeat a Knight in Battle?

#261
post #220
post #208

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's one of the reasons the 2nd Amendment was written; to avoid tyrannical rule, and to allow the "peasants" (regular people) to revolt if a tyrant ever took power.

As a European I've always thought that this bit of US law has not aged all that well. Imagine a tyrant takes hold of the US armed forces and uses that to overthrow the rest of government so they can rule alone. The US armed forces have equipment going up to tanks, fighter jets, bombers, drones and nuclear weapons. A militia is going to struggle to field even heavy machine guns, let alone an air force. I doubt they'd…

We have modern examples of this situation, and that’s not how it works. In the 1971 Bangladesh independence war, the Pakistani military started conducting a genocide of Bangladeshis. (They didn’t do it with fighter jets, which they had plenty of, but infantry with rifles.) Bangladesh was mostly disarmed, but arms were funneled to it from India. Civilians also raised army supply depots to steal guns. They then put up a resistance with the arms they had or could get. That caused large swaths of the Pakistani military—many of whom were Bangladeshis—to defect and fight for independence. A citizen military’s willingness to fight their own people is limited. Having enough arms to start the armed resistance was the most important thing. And I suspect a lot fewer Bangladeshis would have been killed in the genocide had they been as well-armed as Americans are.

At the end of the day, holding territory is hard. Look at how much trouble Americans have had subduing the Taliban in Afghanistan. The bombs, tanks, planes, etc., are largely useless in holding a city. Now, combine that with the fact that the US military is comprised of citizen soldiers, who would be in the position of fighting against their own communities.

It’s when a community is totally disarmed, and when the mere show of military force would force total capitulation without violence, that a citizen military could rationalize aiding tyranny.

It’s also worth pointing out that there are 50 governors who command national guards that have fighter planes and tanks and whatnot. In a real civil war, armed citizenry would likely be fighting alongside state forces.

Re: Could a Peasant Defeat a Knight in Battle?

#262

People who suggest that knights could be defeated by peasants in one-on-one or even one-on-many combat often overlook that many (or most?) knights spent their time practicing how to kill people in combat. Peasants on the other hand were busy tending to their land or cattle or doing whatever they had to survive. The modern analogy for adult peasant fighting an adult knight would be a bar fight between a random bystand…

Say hello to my little friend waves crossbow

Most peasants could not afford crossbows. There might be an exception, or in small towns with traders equipping mercenaries

Re: Could a Peasant Defeat a Knight in Battle?

#263
post #220

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a European I've always thought that this bit of US law has not aged all that well. Imagine a tyrant takes hold of the US armed forces and uses that to overthrow the rest of government so they can rule alone. The US armed forces have equipment going up to tanks, fighter jets, bombers, drones and nuclear weapons. A militia is going to struggle to field even heavy machine guns, let alone an air force. I doubt they'd…

I have saved a post about this from 4chan, they passed it around on some pro-gun rights forums. Will paraphrase it and spare you the expletives. "You cannot control an entire country and its people with tanks, jets, battleships and drone or any of these things you believe trump's citizen ownership of firearms. A fighter jet, tank, drone, battleship or whatever cannot stand on street corners. And enforce "no assembly"…

So basically, it can't protect against all out war on it's citizens, or a oppressive government willing to kill innocents in order to terrorise the population; but it could protect against softer power grabs or coups.

Re: Could a Peasant Defeat a Knight in Battle?

#264
post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The more I hear about this feudalism thing the less I like it.

My view is that nobility were really like gangs that controlled and fought over territory and extorted the common people. So the current nobility are really just the heirs of criminal associations. They shouldn't have a place in the modern world.

That's exactly right, although over time "nobility" added a layer of polish and distance which allowed it to pretend that nobles were more refined, more intelligent, and generally better people - when in fact they were just the most successful crooks.

This continued all the way through the 20th century, where the disposable deplorables did the fighting while the aristocracy profited.

There were even strong links to drugs. Look up the history of the opium wars for details.

Most of the UK's country estates were built from the profits of slavery, drugs, and colonialism - which is just nation-scale feudal conquest painted over with flag-waving patriotism.

Re: Could a Peasant Defeat a Knight in Battle?

#265
post #220

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a European I've always thought that this bit of US law has not aged all that well. Imagine a tyrant takes hold of the US armed forces and uses that to overthrow the rest of government so they can rule alone. The US armed forces have equipment going up to tanks, fighter jets, bombers, drones and nuclear weapons. A militia is going to struggle to field even heavy machine guns, let alone an air force. I doubt they'd…

And how did all that military might fare in Vietnam? How has it fared in the Middle East? Now imagine turning all that might against itself where much of the population has small arms of some sorts.

Was the US trying to tyrannically attack those places? The government had to constantly answer to it's populace for those wars; if it had to answer to no one, things may have been different.

Re: Could a Peasant Defeat a Knight in Battle?

#266
post #220

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a European I've always thought that this bit of US law has not aged all that well. Imagine a tyrant takes hold of the US armed forces and uses that to overthrow the rest of government so they can rule alone. The US armed forces have equipment going up to tanks, fighter jets, bombers, drones and nuclear weapons. A militia is going to struggle to field even heavy machine guns, let alone an air force. I doubt they'd…

I have saved a post about this from 4chan, they passed it around on some pro-gun rights forums. Will paraphrase it and spare you the expletives. "You cannot control an entire country and its people with tanks, jets, battleships and drone or any of these things you believe trump's citizen ownership of firearms. A fighter jet, tank, drone, battleship or whatever cannot stand on street corners. And enforce "no assembly"…

You don't need any of the above if you have an effective media machine that tells people what to think.

Which you very much do in the US. The militias aren't there to protect "freedom", they're kept on hand in case they're ever needed to protect privilege.

Re: Could a Peasant Defeat a Knight in Battle?

#267

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I always wonder how much a liability a horse was during medieval combat. Sure speed and maneuverability are great but up close it seems that horse is quite vulnerable to attacks on the legs for example with long bladed weapons. You can’t really protect horse’s legs with armor

In the right circumstances, yes, it could be a liability. Here in Late Medieval Czechia we had a militant reformation movement called the Hussites. Of course, the rest of Catholic Europe sent in several crusades to crush the heretics, without much success. One of the many reasons why the crusaders failed were so-called Wagenburgs [0]. Basically, the Hussite army would be underway with very heavy wagons and, if the sc…

That is so cool to learn about. My first exposure to war wagons was in AoE 3 [1] and I always wondered how a fortified wagon drawn by horse was somehow a counter to cavalry when you would theoretically just kill the horse and render the wagon useless (a mobility kill). Makes much more sense when you consider that a bunch of them are essentially a portable fort.

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[1] https://ageofempires.fandom.com/wiki/War_Wagon_(Age_of_Empir...

Re: Could a Peasant Defeat a Knight in Battle?

#268

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You don't need the right to bear arms to revolt to tyrants. There is no similar right in any other part of the World, in every other part of the World there have been revolts, sometimes much larger than US has ever witnessed. Many countries have also revolted against USA, that more often than not has been the tryrant.

To be fair, unarmed revolts have always been crushed unless they were supported by foreign militaries (like the US.) I'd like to see a citation of a single unarmed revolution that succeeded. edit: the armed right wing of the US could easily decide that they didn't like the outcome of the election, and change it. The volunteer military and national police forces entirely constructed to prosecute the drug war are overw…

> To be fair, unarmed revolts have always been crushed

To be fair the US has a tendency to side with tyrants, dictators, oppressors, not exactly with the peasants, at least in the past 80 years.

To name one

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_involvement_in_r...

But I see your point, my objections are to:

1 - you don't need to be armed, you nede to be able to, in case you;re going to need it (for example through external support)

2 - you prove my point, there is no armed revolt that succeeded only because people were armed, you need international support (at least from your neighbours)

> I'd like to see a citation of a single unarmed revolution that succeeded.

here's one for you, my friend.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orange_Revolution

> The purpose of being armed is really to force the opposition to massacre you

exactly.

that's the point.

and that's why you don't point a gun to a policeman.

being armed has always been a disadvantage for regular people.

That's why the comment bringing up the 2nd amendment is completely off topic in this context, 10 centuries ago if you traveled armed you had to be ready to fight, because everyone armed like you was going to try to kill you: you represented a danger.

it's the same thing that happens today in US, a lot of people are armed, they have guns on them, the police patrolling is even more heavily armed that the gangsters, they take a look a round, see something fishy, they see a gun, they shoot.

No question asked.

So, to go back on topic, being unarmed for the peasants of the Carolingian era most of the time made the difference between being killed and being simply robbed.

Re: Could a Peasant Defeat a Knight in Battle?

#269

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You require driving license to buy knives and you can't carry them in public without a special license.

...and you continue to avoid naming a country where this is the case?

spain, france?

Re: Could a Peasant Defeat a Knight in Battle?

#270

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The account you're replying to gave you a source: the Annals of St. Bertin. It's available on Google Books, you have everything you need satisfy your own curiousity.

But that period is dark ages not medieval

Historians no longer use the term Dark Ages and haven't for years now. Late Antiquity and the early Medieval era were more complex than that.
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