Helsinki Relocation Package: City as a Service • Hacker News Board

Re: Helsinki Relocation Package: City as a Service

#261

Post by meekrohprocess » Fri, Nov 06, 2020, 5:59 AM UTC

deanclatworthy wrote: post #243

cactus2093 wrote: post #231

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sounds like you’re in tech, what range of salary have you seen for software engineers? I know London, Paris, a lot of expensive European cities pay a small fraction of what the Bay Area does so a lot of engineers would have to compromise quite a bit on disposable income and lifestyle.

I can only speak for those in the web tech industry, but salaries go from 4-6k euros. Take-home pay would be in the region of 2.5-4.5k most likely. I've seen a lot of whining about the high taxes here, but honestly this is not a European way of thinking. You are safe here. You have a safety net if things don't go right in your work or health. Taxes are also super simple. You tell the tax office your predicted income,…

I am less concerned with the taxes, and more concerned that Amazon/Google/etc happily pay ten times that salary. It's literally an order of magnitude difference, and contracting hourly rates seems like a similar story.

I would happily pay 3-5x the taxes for a similar salary to emigrate, but if you offer me 1/10 the pay? That's tough. It makes me feel like there isn't a big market for my services across the pond.

It's a shame, because I love tech and I lean heavily left. But this has been the case for at least the past decade, and it shows no sign of stopping.

Re: Helsinki Relocation Package: City as a Service

#262

Post by soul_grafitti » Fri, Nov 06, 2020, 5:59 AM UTC

pkaye wrote: post #202

PopeDotNinja wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I had a six figure income in San Francisco & insurance, and still ended up medically bankrupt. Bike accident, head trauma, unable to work, work tied to job... employer sponsored healthcare sucks if your ability to work is compromised.

Your employer didn't provide short/long term disability insurance?

Do you live and work in America?

Re: Helsinki Relocation Package: City as a Service

#263

Post by legohead » Fri, Nov 06, 2020, 5:59 AM UTC

deanc wrote: post #190

Overall my experience in Helsinki has been hugely positive. I’ve been here now over a decade and have settled with work and family life. Work life balance is great, there’s a beautiful outdoors to enjoy all year, and the people are warm and kind, if not difficult to start with. All that said, there’s a lot of bullshit and hot air here in this thread: - public healthcare is great until you have something difficult to…

Can you pay for private dentists, or similar, if you need more immediate service? And is the wait similar for major things like cancer, brain tutor, or heart surgery?

Re: Helsinki Relocation Package: City as a Service

#264

Post by _2d30 » Fri, Nov 06, 2020, 6:01 AM UTC

h0l0cube wrote: post #244

labster wrote: post #229

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, the US military is obligated to defend Europe under Article 5 of the North Atlantic Treaty.

Techinically , you are right, but as with the treaty with Iran[0], or the Paris Agreement[1], etc. the US can leave. The US can basically do what it wants, and the political consequences are relatively minor. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joint_Comprehensive_Plan_of_Ac... [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paris_Agreement#Withdrawal_fro...

This interpretation of this "obligation" is true of any "obligation". "Obligations" are inherently a social capital forcing function conception. They can always be violated so this point is pretty moot.

Re: Helsinki Relocation Package: City as a Service

#265

Post by howlgarnish » Fri, Nov 06, 2020, 6:02 AM UTC

Dig1t wrote: post #259

deanclatworthy wrote: post #243

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can only speak for those in the web tech industry, but salaries go from 4-6k euros. Take-home pay would be in the region of 2.5-4.5k most likely. I've seen a lot of whining about the high taxes here, but honestly this is not a European way of thinking. You are safe here. You have a safety net if things don't go right in your work or health. Taxes are also super simple. You tell the tax office your predicted income,…

2.5k - 4.5k sucks :/

Yes, but if you're starting a family, essentially free child care and schooling up to and including university is pretty nice. Hell, if you're accepted for full-time studies at University, the government pays you to keep studying (opintoraha).

Re: Helsinki Relocation Package: City as a Service

#266

Post by djhn » Fri, Nov 06, 2020, 6:03 AM UTC

usr1106 wrote: post #148

Devils-Avocado wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also: 24% VAT (sales tax) 18% employer payroll taxes 10% employee payroll taxes 20-30% typical income tax Take your American disposable income and cut it in half. Still worth it for 'free' education and 'free' healthcare? Also a lot of cold and darkness.

Having lived in several European countries I'd say Finland has probably one of the weaker health care systems. * every legal resident has access to basic health care in their own municipality. A visit costs around 30 euros, max 700 euros a year (Which is a lot compared to Germany, cheap compared to the US). Queues can be long, several weeks. Negotiation skills help, but as a foreigner you might get blocked completely…

Actual data from OECD is available, so we don't have to rely on anecdotes.

It is by far not "one of the weaker health care systems".

https://www.oecd.org/health/health-systems/health-care-quali...

Re: Helsinki Relocation Package: City as a Service

#267

Post by deanclatworthy » Fri, Nov 06, 2020, 6:03 AM UTC

Dig1t wrote: post #259

deanclatworthy wrote: post #243

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can only speak for those in the web tech industry, but salaries go from 4-6k euros. Take-home pay would be in the region of 2.5-4.5k most likely. I've seen a lot of whining about the high taxes here, but honestly this is not a European way of thinking. You are safe here. You have a safety net if things don't go right in your work or health. Taxes are also super simple. You tell the tax office your predicted income,…

2.5k - 4.5k sucks :/

Let's say you take home around 3k, you keep it.

You can get an apartment in the (actual) city center around 50m^2 for 900-1000 of that, food expenses I'd guess are around 500 (never tracked it) and that leaves you with 1500 to enjoy on life each month.

I purchased my place after about 5 years which is 5mins by subway to the center, and I pay around the same for my mortgage as I did on rent, except I am investing in equity now. I'm also set to make a large profit when I sell this place. I'm very happy with my entry into the property market here. It's completely infeasible to do this in cities like London or any major metropolitan area in the US.

Re: Helsinki Relocation Package: City as a Service

#268

Post by [deleted] » Fri, Nov 06, 2020, 6:04 AM UTC

mapgrep wrote: post #221

timsally wrote: post #210

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If I was an American, I wouldn't want to be footing the bill for Global Security either. There is a deep and nuanced conversation to be had here, though I will say fourstar already made one important point very succinctly. [1] I will point out that it has been the position of the American people since WWII that we are happy to foot the bill for global security. So while you might not feel that way, Americans feel d…

Ww2 in Europe was largely won by the USSR. Britain and the US opened a western front quite belatedly after years of begging by the USSR, after the Soviets sacrificed 15+ million lives to turn the tide, and after a lot of wasted time focusing on minor gains in North Africa (at Churchill’s insistence). Combined US and UK military’s deaths were less than a tenth those for USSR. We love to pat ourselves on the back with…

[deleted]

Re: Helsinki Relocation Package: City as a Service

#269

Post by juskrey » Fri, Nov 06, 2020, 6:06 AM UTC

legohead wrote: post #263

deanc wrote: post #190

Overall my experience in Helsinki has been hugely positive. I’ve been here now over a decade and have settled with work and family life. Work life balance is great, there’s a beautiful outdoors to enjoy all year, and the people are warm and kind, if not difficult to start with. All that said, there’s a lot of bullshit and hot air here in this thread: - public healthcare is great until you have something difficult to…

Can you pay for private dentists, or similar, if you need more immediate service? And is the wait similar for major things like cancer, brain tutor, or heart surgery?

You can, but what is the point of high taxes then?

Re: Helsinki Relocation Package: City as a Service

#270

Post by andreareina » Fri, Nov 06, 2020, 6:06 AM UTC

hestefisk wrote: post #186

eru wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can have lower taxes (than in America) and excellent public services in Singapore. Eat your cake and have it, too. Very startup friendly as well and excellent food. The tropical weather takes a bit of getting used to, though. I much prefer gloomy European skies.

I live in Singapore and my experience is healthcare is extremely expensive unless you have insurance (which I have). Schools for expats are incredibly expensive too unless you want to put them in local ones. Cost of living is very high. I pay SGD 6000/mo to live centrally but with no trees around me.

Most parts of the city I've been to have patches of green at least. I guess the core CBD doesn't have much but even a little bit outside (River Valley, Tanjong Pagar) are quite nice. What area are you in?