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California appeals court rules Uber, Lyft must reclassify drivers as employees

reuters.com

261–270 of 423 posts

Re: California appeals court rules Uber, Lyft must reclassify drivers as employees

#261

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Forgive my ignorance, but doesn't California have public transport? Renting cars isn't the only option I would think? I dunno, I'm not from the US so maybe I just don't understand.

I think a lot of Europeans don't appreciate just how abysmal the public transport options are in practically every American city.

Australian, so I’m in the exact same abysmal boat!

Re: California appeals court rules Uber, Lyft must reclassify drivers as employees

#262

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At the risk of sounding like a stereotypical leftist, I'm struggling to see how more of the blame can be on term limits, and not just a side-effect of our current version of democracy under capitalism. Simply put, if I had 100B, and there was outside force threatening my business I would certainly invest to protect myself - this includes mundane things like investing in security and outside threats like regulation. I…

> democracy under capitalism Left wing systems also have powerful special interests.

Hopefully more accountable though.

Re: California appeals court rules Uber, Lyft must reclassify drivers as employees

#263
post #9

This has been an interesting battle in terms of civil governance. Basically Uber & Lyft threatened to put the initiative they wrote, on the ballot if the legislature passed AB5, which they did. Uber and Lyft are now doing everything they can to get it to pass which will set up its own court fight. Watching this fight I wonder "Who is in charge of governing California?" is it the Legislature/Governor or is it special…

> California didn't help itself when it implemented term limits which had the unpleasant side effect of never having any legislators with enough experience in the job to know how to really get things done. I've never understood this argument. Potential "yay" and "nay" votes are both term-limited, so the "inexperience" should cancel out? The fear of rocking the boat effects anyone that, well, will live longer. Whether…

> I've never understood this argument. Potential "yay" and "nay" votes are both term-limited, so the "inexperience" should cancel out?

There are no term limits on C-level executives in deep-pocketed corporations and special interests. The term limits are on the legislators they buy. It's like a subscription model: you need to renew every few years to keep the gravy flowing.

Re: California appeals court rules Uber, Lyft must reclassify drivers as employees

#264

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Forgive my ignorance, but doesn't California have public transport? Renting cars isn't the only option I would think? I dunno, I'm not from the US so maybe I just don't understand.

If you are from Europe and you have never visited California, then you have a lot to learn about our crazy transportation. Most of California, and especially Southern California, is car-centric. Los Angeles was the first large city that was built up after the invention of the automobile, and it really shows. Living in LA without a car is a pretty atypical behavior. https://www.smithsonianmag.com/history/nobody-walks-…

I live in Australia where the car also reigns supreme. I would say there’s no decent public transportation anywhere in the country outside of the capital cities, and even then it really depends on where you live.

Re: California appeals court rules Uber, Lyft must reclassify drivers as employees

#265

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes I think the guy making false claims without even a shred of data, despite being asked for it by multiple people you replied to, multiple times, is a shill. Now a lengthy post bashing Lyft and praising uber. Lmao... really? I am absolutely certain you are a shill at this point.

Thousands of rides is not "without even a shred of data". You, on the other hand, have no data, yet seem to be very outspoken on the topic. If anyone is a bot in this conversation, it is you.

Oh I have like 9000 rides, so since I claim that it must be true and now my opinions turn to facts according to you. Cool.

Re: California appeals court rules Uber, Lyft must reclassify drivers as employees

#266

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You also made up your mind so why bother making comments to others? You doing an average of 8 rides per day does not render a data set that can scientifically support even a fraction of the claims in your original post. Your claims are nonsense and you are obviously a paid shill here to spread disinformation. I am here to subvert your efforts! :D

I'm a retired programmer working in Silicon Valley. I'm like a kid in a candy store in some regards, such as I picked up one of the top VR developers in the world at the San Jose Convention Center and gave him a long ride. He was excited to talk about VR and convinced me to buy what he was working on. I did! I wouldn't be a shill if Uber/Lyft paid me. There's no fun in that. As I mentioned elsewhere, I really like me…

Cool backstory.

Re: California appeals court rules Uber, Lyft must reclassify drivers as employees

#267

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To be fair only "workers" and employees should be able to vote on employment law then, no students no pensioners. This is why employment law needs to be take away from the states - have one federally defined set of laws - stops a race to the bottom.

Yea until the same problems just get applied everywhere instead of in one state only. I prefer keeping many things at the state level. It’s much more difficult to be involved in government when you’re trying to vote in a pool of 350,000,000 people with different interests. Democracies lose effectiveness as population increases.

So if a US state did something like Ireland and Holland do and help big companies dodge taxes - you'd be fine with that?

There is a good argument (for the good of the country as a whole) that sales tax should be harmonised.

Re: California appeals court rules Uber, Lyft must reclassify drivers as employees

#268

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To be fair only "workers" and employees should be able to vote on employment law then, no students no pensioners. This is why employment law needs to be take away from the states - have one federally defined set of laws - stops a race to the bottom.

>This is why employment law needs to be take away from the states - have one federally defined set of laws - stops a race to the bottom. It's not that hard to imagine a world where Chester Cheeto wins in a landslide, the Republicans get a healthy majority in congress and the Kochs convince them to repeal most existing federal labor law. Will you be clamoring for federal labor and employment law then? Sure, there migh…

Agreed. "It should be a national issue!" presumes a particular set of policies are enacted, enacted effectively, and enacted fairly.

One could certainly be overly optimistic about that happening. Best case, it makes "a federal issue" out of something at a time when political divisiveness is already at intolerable levels. At least now Alabama and California can disappointedly shake their damn heads at one another instead of being engaged in active opposition.

Re: California appeals court rules Uber, Lyft must reclassify drivers as employees

#269

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yea until the same problems just get applied everywhere instead of in one state only. I prefer keeping many things at the state level. It’s much more difficult to be involved in government when you’re trying to vote in a pool of 350,000,000 people with different interests. Democracies lose effectiveness as population increases.

So if a US state did something like Ireland and Holland do and help big companies dodge taxes - you'd be fine with that? There is a good argument (for the good of the country as a whole) that sales tax should be harmonised.

As I said, I prefer keeping many things at the state level, not necessarily all things. What you're describing here might be a good example of something that should be or continue to be regulated at the federal level, but keep in mind that we do have "tax dodging" scenarios to this day if you move to different states with different rules. (you can also apply this globally as well, tax havens, etc.)

Over time I've become more interested in the loose confederation of states and decentralization of power over consolidation of power at the hands of the federal government. I think the US has too large of a population with an increasing amount of differences to really effectively govern. If parents want to teach kids that the earth was created 6,000 years ago in their state, who am I to say otherwise? Vote with your feet and $$. If I don't like how California handles businesses like Uber and Lyft, same thing. At least at the state level though you right now have some reasonable measure of involvement. I can email my state representative and actually get a response. My federal one? Not a chance.

Re: California appeals court rules Uber, Lyft must reclassify drivers as employees

#270

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The number of rides isn't unbelievable. What is unbelievable is that 2000 rides by 1 person would render a data set that would scientifically support even a fraction of the claims in his original post.

OK, but we were always talking about anecdotal data in casual conversation right, not hardcore scientific analysis? I think even the original poster acknowledged that.

No he did not acknowledge that, please quote him if I missed it somehow. He presented a long list, as fact, and when questioned for a source he dodged the question, then when asked again he claimed he drove a lot one year. But the claims he's making are about other drivers and factors he simply could not determine as a single driver in a limited region. The original post, as it was written is absolute useless ignorance at best and active disinformation at worst.
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