Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Stable 1.2 Gigabit/s Internet achieved in moving train in Switzerland

swisscom.ch

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

261–270 of 362 posts

Re: Stable 1.2 Gigabit/s Internet achieved in moving train in Switzerland

#261

Post by harha »

adev_ wrote: post #253
harha wrote: post #250

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Higher taxes won’t get stable and fast internet (or anything else being efficient) - neighboring Germany has high taxes, expensive services and very slow internet even within cities. Also the trains are notoriously unpunctual, and expensive compared to other EU countries. The cause of the internet seems to be a mix of the mobile frequency auctions that didn’t leave any money for a good network combined with low compe…

> The Swiss model seems to be to think of the consequences of policies before putting them in place, the lower taxes seem to be more of a result of that. Outside of taxes, it is also a matter of political choices The Swiss took the decision to develop the train as a first transport choice nationally... Even trucks transiting through Switzerland are loaded on trains. And the result is there: They have a good network w…

I suspect the Swiss calculated that individual transportation doesn’t scale well.

The US build ever bigger highways (I recall a summit at Stanford on clean energy in 2014 where some guy from McKinsey claimed that the solution to all problems is to increase highway throughout by having self driving cars closer to each other - never would it have occurred to him or anyone on the panel to replace cars with a train or bus) and Germany somehow tries to deal with their bad infrastructure choices after deciding to be car centric in favor of their car industry for many years.

Edit: fun little note: I actually wanted to ask the McKinsey guy what his take on public transportation was, but wasn’t chosen for the q&a since I was sitting in the very back after I arrived late due to some issue on the Caltrain.

Re: Stable 1.2 Gigabit/s Internet achieved in moving train in Switzerland

#262

Post by apexalpha »

singhrac wrote: post #4

I would honestly pay significantly higher taxes if we could get Swiss-quality train service in parts of the US (and especially if they have good internet). When I traveled Boston to NY in the past, compare my flight experience vs Amtrak. Flight: - Take $25 Uber to airport and get there 1 hour early to go through security and wait. - Fly to JFK (1h 20m) - land, wait to get off, go through terminal again, then take $50…

One of the biggest improvements is absolutely free to do (by Congress).

Give passenger rail priority.

No where in the Western world does a passenger train have to give way to a freight train. It' s always the other way around. Except in the US. In the US when freight companies are late they make passenger trains wait.

They can do this because they own the track. But with a presidential stroke of a pen many delays in Amtrak can be resolved in one go.

Re: Stable 1.2 Gigabit/s Internet achieved in moving train in Switzerland

#263

Post by harha »

MrBuddyCasino wrote: post #255
harha wrote: post #250

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Higher taxes won’t get stable and fast internet (or anything else being efficient) - neighboring Germany has high taxes, expensive services and very slow internet even within cities. Also the trains are notoriously unpunctual, and expensive compared to other EU countries. The cause of the internet seems to be a mix of the mobile frequency auctions that didn’t leave any money for a good network combined with low compe…

> The Swiss model seems to be to think of the consequences of policies before putting them in place, the lower taxes seem to be more of a result of that. This is a very good point. I suspect that because decision making is very local, they have functioning feedback loops: so you decided to spend too much money on a new fire truck? Well now you can't pay for the sports field renovations. People eventually learn.

Yes you’re much closer to deciding on the people spending your money, since it is clear what is cantonal and what is state responsibility and they tax you very clearly visible and separately. That way you don’t need to blindly trust the claims of the different politicians, you see the result directly.

Re: Stable 1.2 Gigabit/s Internet achieved in moving train in Switzerland

#264

Post by murrayhenson »

TuringNYC wrote: post #243
ttul wrote: post #237

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm quite sure Swiss taxes are lower than US taxes. A married person earning CHF 100,000 in Zurich with three kids will receive CHF 92,000 after tax and including the "family allowances", or thereabouts. In Washington State, a married person making $100,000/yr will take home only $83,666.

Your numbers on Washington State seem off. I dont think you are including Social Security Taxes (7.65%) https://smartasset.com/taxes/income-taxes#nyI48IDDLI Also, Washington State is atypical for the US since they dont have a state income tax. In most other states, there is an added state income tax.

You could throw VAT/sales tax in there, too. In Switzerland it's absurdly low (for Europe) at 7.7%.

Re: Stable 1.2 Gigabit/s Internet achieved in moving train in Switzerland

#265

Post by ThePhysicist »

singhrac wrote: post #4

I would honestly pay significantly higher taxes if we could get Swiss-quality train service in parts of the US (and especially if they have good internet). When I traveled Boston to NY in the past, compare my flight experience vs Amtrak. Flight: - Take $25 Uber to airport and get there 1 hour early to go through security and wait. - Fly to JFK (1h 20m) - land, wait to get off, go through terminal again, then take $50…

It's hard to understand for me why there even isn't any high-speed train service between large metropolitan areas in the US.

As an example, in 2016 I took the train from New York to Montreal. The distance is only about 600 km, but the train ride took almost 12 hours! Part of that was due to the border checks of course, but even during the part in the States the train tucked along really slowly and had to stop multiple times to let cargo trains pass (which have priority over passenger trains it seems). In Europe, I also regularly took the train from Saarbrücken to Paris, which is not that different in terms of distance (around 500-550 km depending how you count) and takes just 1 hour 45 minutes.

The great thing about Switzerland is their 30 minute schedule btw: Trains are scheduled so they arrive around 5 minutes before half in all major train stations, and depart around 5 minutes after half again, so that you can hop from one train to another with less than 10 minutes delay (and trains are on time in Switzerland). They're already planning to change those intervals to 15 minutes, which would basically turn Switzerland into one giant metropolitan area, with train schedules that feel more like subway connections.

Re: Stable 1.2 Gigabit/s Internet achieved in moving train in Switzerland

#266

Post by maccard »

Symbiote wrote: post #42
maccard wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm in Edinburgh and have travelled to London fairly frequently. It's a £30 uber to the airport, arrive 2 hours early, £20 for a flight, and £25 for the Heathrow express. The other option is the train, it's 4.5 hours, comfortable, but costs £250. It's a much nicer journey, but regularly much more expensive.

The system is unreasonable, but your figures are exaggerations. You are comparing the price of a budget airline flight, booked at least several days, if not weeks, in advance, with a first class train ticket bought on the day of departure. Departing tomorrow afternoon, an EasyJet flight is £115. I don't know if the morning flights are sold out, or are currently not running, but they presumably exist. The train is £77…

The figures can be skewed both ways in fairness. I had a look for travelling for the weekend of Nov 20th (it's a month from this weekend) on Friday and back Monday, leaving after 8:30am both days. Trainline is quoting me £190 return. Easyjet is £60.

As an aside, the train schedule and prices seem substantially cheaper than this time last year. I don't ever recall there being availability on the super off peak trains if travelling within a week or so.

Re: Stable 1.2 Gigabit/s Internet achieved in moving train in Switzerland

#267

Post by dafrie »

throw0101a wrote: post #210
asdff wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not everyone living along a coast has an appropriate coast to establish a harbor sufficient for shipping. If you live in big sur you still get your crap from china delivered inland from the port of Los Angeles.

Where did I say that it was necessary? In the US there are lots of major ports all along the coast, which is where most of the population is. For the Pacific: * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Panamax_ports#Pacific_... And from any of those it's probably not that far to any major population centre. Compare to Switzerland, which has precisely zero ports, and so of course needs rail (and trucks) to get things del…

Nitpicking: Switzerland actually does have three ports that provide, protected by international law, access to the North Sea (via the Rhine) and the Black Sea (via the Rhine–Main–Danube canal). In terms of quantities, about 10% of imports are going through these ports, mainly bulk load.

Source (only in german): https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schweizerische_Rheinh%C3%A4fen

Re: Stable 1.2 Gigabit/s Internet achieved in moving train in Switzerland

#268

Post by rho4 »

ttul wrote: post #237
singhrac wrote: post #4

I would honestly pay significantly higher taxes if we could get Swiss-quality train service in parts of the US (and especially if they have good internet). When I traveled Boston to NY in the past, compare my flight experience vs Amtrak. Flight: - Take $25 Uber to airport and get there 1 hour early to go through security and wait. - Fly to JFK (1h 20m) - land, wait to get off, go through terminal again, then take $50…

I'm quite sure Swiss taxes are lower than US taxes. A married person earning CHF 100,000 in Zurich with three kids will receive CHF 92,000 after tax and including the "family allowances", or thereabouts. In Washington State, a married person making $100,000/yr will take home only $83,666.

I'm Swiss, programming tax declaration and calculation software. Your example seems to take into account only the social security deduction. The ~92000 will indeed appear in your bank account, but at the end of the year you will have to pay income and wealth tax on that. Switzerland is one of a few countries where taxes are not automatically deducted from your salary (except for expats and some cornercases). You are responsible yourself to set aside a part of your salary because you will get a pretty hefty tax invoice after your tax declaration next year (big problem for some, as you can imagine). The 'tax return' concept doesn't exist here (again, with some exceptions).

Re: Stable 1.2 Gigabit/s Internet achieved in moving train in Switzerland

#269

Post by maccard »

jagger27 wrote: post #18
maccard wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm in Edinburgh and have travelled to London fairly frequently. It's a £30 uber to the airport, arrive 2 hours early, £20 for a flight, and £25 for the Heathrow express. The other option is the train, it's 4.5 hours, comfortable, but costs £250. It's a much nicer journey, but regularly much more expensive.

£20 for a flight is so, so foreign as a Canadian. Domestic flights here are easily 10x that on a good day. In the before times, it was pretty much the same price to get a last minute VIA train ticket or a Porter flight between Ottawa and Toronto. If you’re lucky, early, or a student, you can get a train ticket quite a bit cheaper.

Easyjet and Ryanair both regularly offer flights for roughly that price. It's very route dependent and usually a limited number of seats, but having regularly flown inside the UK and between the UK and Ireland, I've often gotten fares in the £10-30 each way.

Re: Stable 1.2 Gigabit/s Internet achieved in moving train in Switzerland

#270

Post by samoa42 »

mandada wrote: post #216
snarkypixel wrote: post #19

Just as a fun thought experiment, what /new/ things could be possible if we had 1Terabit/s?

From the web development perspective, the network is no longer the bottleneck; its CPU processing power. Doesn’t matter how fast your website comes if it’s shove full of trackers and ads that mobile CPU can’t handle. Put another way, what’s the point of downloading a terabyte of data in seconds when it takes your computer minutes to process it into something useful? Also, where are we storing all this data that we ca…

completely agree on most points but starlink is not likely to beat the speed of light, so geolocation is still the dominating factor for latency.

it will improve the situation for regions with poor wired infrastructure.

funny thou how 8gigs of ram seems to be good enough for a decade now.

Post reply on HN