We keep discovering that more and more animals are far more intelligent than we thought. It makes me question the very idea of eating meat.
Crows possess higher intelligence long thought a primarily human attribute
261–270 of 390 posts
Re: Crows possess higher intelligence long thought a primarily human attribute
#262I've had some magpie issues for years, and after trying various things I ended up shooting a couple because they were getting aggressive. It worked and the rest buggered off.
During the entire time a local couple of ravens watched the entire process from afar. Theyv'e never been an issue so I haven't paid attention to them, but to this day, I swear that those two ravens come by with every chick they hatch, watching when I practice shoot teaching their kids to stay away from me if I have my rifle. Otherwise, they mostly ignore me.
Re: Crows possess higher intelligence long thought a primarily human attribute
#263Anyone who met a crow knows this. MFs are sneaky smart and get up to anything and everything. Like if you gave a group 16 boys wings.
Re: Crows possess higher intelligence long thought a primarily human attribute
#264Earlier quoted context omitted.
If you look up the researchers working on the stuff you think you might be able to help with - just email them. They may even have some budget to help you out. I've found most scientists to be super open to talking w/ interested parties, and often willing to let you help for free :) Some are busy divas, or busy in general, or also teaching and busy, so it doesn't always work, but there are a lot of folks out there do…
Brilliant idea right there. Just reach out and see if any want to get involved to further their own research?
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Re: Crows possess higher intelligence long thought a primarily human attribute
#265We keep discovering that more and more animals are far more intelligent than we thought. It makes me question the very idea of eating meat.
Douglas Hofstadter writes about intelligence being the reason behind his (almost) vegetarianism. If I recall correctly, he doesn't have any qualms about swatting a mosquito because on the sliding scale of intelligence they're somewhere near the bottom, being about as sophisticated as some software he could write himself. He doesn't think twice about deleting software, so why hold reservations about killing an insect? It makes you wonder at what point in sophistication we should think twice about deleting our software.
Re: Crows possess higher intelligence long thought a primarily human attribute
#266Out here, the ravens are our neighborhood watch. They have certain blocks that they patrol, always one spotter (from a tree or building), and one on the wing or walking about. Ravens are about the size as a 4 year old human. They love McDonald's french fries, alas: they will sort through the refuse bins, and aren't too careful about putting the trash back. I often wonder about encouraging them to pick up litter and r…
A couple of crows at our local railway station have apparently learned, possibly the hard way: The very carefully pick through the litter bins, making an obvious effort not to spill anything on the pavement.
A less conscientious mate of theirs has impressed me in a different way. Surveyed a bin, chose a papercup and threw it on the ground. Extracted crumpled plastic bag from cup. Straightened bag, went around to the bottom end, picked it up, and determinedly shook out remains of sandwich. All extremly controlled and clearly planned, no hint of trial and error.
Re: Crows possess higher intelligence long thought a primarily human attribute
#267Earlier quoted context omitted.
Yet another way to dominate over the animal kingdom... lifting them up with tech increases their reliance on us, all while we reserve the right to take it away again
A very reasonable point, but I guess in my mind it would not be a master slave relationship, we should uplift them into sentience and allow them to use that technology to choose their own path. Obviously there is a lot of hubris there, but as a now ... semi sentient species, I prefer this over being eaten, and I think animals might express the same sentiment, as long as they don't murder us all for our sins :)
humans are not yet beyond enslaving each other, which i do not feel bodes well for our treatment of an uplifted species; however, as concept fiction it allows exploration of ideas in interesting ways and i tend to like settings with “intelligent” animals.
all impossibly anthropocentric obviously. is being made more human even “up” or a “lift”? maybe things are supposed to be as thingy as possible (in a platonic sense) and this whole conversation is like looking at a fish and criticizing it for not being arboreal.
Re: Crows possess higher intelligence long thought a primarily human attribute
#268Earlier quoted context omitted.
A very reasonable point, but I guess in my mind it would not be a master slave relationship, we should uplift them into sentience and allow them to use that technology to choose their own path. Obviously there is a lot of hubris there, but as a now ... semi sentient species, I prefer this over being eaten, and I think animals might express the same sentiment, as long as they don't murder us all for our sins :)
humans are not yet beyond enslaving each other, which i do not feel bodes well for our treatment of an uplifted species; however, as concept fiction it allows exploration of ideas in interesting ways and i tend to like settings with “intelligent” animals. all impossibly anthropocentric obviously. is being made more human even “up” or a “lift”? maybe things are supposed to be as thingy as possible (in a platonic sense…
When and if we are in the position to uplift species, it will be on their terms not ours (my opinion) and the exercise in doing so will uplift ourselves (metaphorically and literally - why would we help engineer higher consciousness in other animals and not ourselves? We haven't even begun to tap our own potential as a culture of living creatures on this planet)
edit: in pockets we are above enslavement, but just barely, and I think we need to really grit through to the next stage of our humanity, but there are a lot of road blocks before that happens, and as is the general sense, it's a razor's edge between advancement and annihilation.
Re: Crows possess higher intelligence long thought a primarily human attribute
#269> I was woke by persistent crowing by... well crows
actually, roosters crow and crows caw, so you were awakened by cawing, and now you are woke.
Re: Crows possess higher intelligence long thought a primarily human attribute
#270Just a couple of weeks ago, northern summer, I saw two pairs of crows near the peak of a rooftop about forty feet apart. One of the birds had a round plastic lid in its beak and appeared to be trying to get the attention of the other, picking up the lid and setting it down, while the other pair looked on from a distance. When the second crow (equivalent of a teenager in my mind, because it had the body language of someone trying to figure out what to do with their hands) stopped acting distracted, the first crow set down the lid and stood on it, slightly lifting its wings. This happened a couple of times, and then the first crow flew away. While the two apart watched, the second "teenage" crow picked up the lid, set it down, and then stood on it like the first.
I'm looking forward to snow this year.