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Hong Kong mourns the end of its way of life

nationalgeographic.com

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Re: Hong Kong mourns the end of its way of life

#261

Post by koonsolo »

I think we all agree that none of us would want to live under CCP.

So the real question is what or who is going to stop them from expanding? Asians have a higher IQ, they have the human numbers and natural resources.

The only thing I can imagine stopping them is that they will be composed of too many regions that want to split. But as long as they can maintain a strong grip, I don't think anything can split off.

There is no world power that can or wants to face them head on, and it will only get worse when they grow bigger (which they will).

Maybe I'm pessimistic, or maybe just realistic?

Re: Hong Kong mourns the end of its way of life

#262

Post by apexalpha »

oxymoran wrote: post #5

The rest of the world needs to wake up and realize that China is not messing around. There will be a long list of Hong Kong’s if we continue to look the other way to authoritarian regimes.

Why do you think that? Hong Kong has historical ties to China and has always been part of it. The different status for Hong Kong has always been a thorn in China's side due to the Opium wars.

I mean outside of areas like Hong Kong and Taiwai that used to be part of China has China ever invaded foreign soil like Western countries to every few years?

Re: Hong Kong mourns the end of its way of life

#263

Post by croes »

ginko wrote: post #158
yorwba wrote: post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The important part is the "wasn't" in "Taiwan wasn't any better". After Japan lost WW2, the island of Taiwan they had annexed in 1895 was turned over to the KMT, who moved their capital to Taiwan as a result of losing the Chinese Civil War to the CCP and ruled the island as a one-party dictatorship with martial law lasting from 1949 to 1987, during which they killed and imprisoned many dissidents. https://en.wikipedi…

The White Terror was terrible, but I'd still take that over the Cultural Revolution any day.

Maybe we should ask the native population of Taiwan that was displaced by mainland chinese.

Re: Hong Kong mourns the end of its way of life

#264

Post by oblio »

samus wrote: post #240
icebraining wrote: post #234

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Invading is only needed if you want to control the place. A bombing/napalm campaign like the US did in the Korean and Vietnam wars, applied to the most important and populous regions of the country, would cripple the country for decades.

Unsure what their reaction would be. Probably not with nukes against the US, but slagging their allies in Asia is a plausible option, depending on their behavior before and after the event. The US might not be able to protect their allies in Asia from such retaliation.

Their reaction to their main cities being napalmed down? Nukes, obviously...

Re: Hong Kong mourns the end of its way of life

#265

Post by mensetmanusman »

markvdb wrote: post #200
blhack wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I can't help but imagine how different it would be if the US and EU/Britain (as leads) would have strongly denounced their approach. What? What could the US have done beyond what we did other than all out war? The US response to this was very harsh. We undid 50 years of diplomacy with China, and have started building a sortof SEA equivalent to NATO. Chinese/American relations have probably never been as unfriendly…

> What? What could the US have done beyond what we did other than all out war? The US response to this was very harsh. Signing the TPP could have helped _a lot_. DT gave China _a lot_ of diplomatic leverage there, for free...

Both parties were getting out of the TPP, because a deal was made that helped the rich but ‘hurt’ China.

Re: Hong Kong mourns the end of its way of life

#266

Post by PakG1 »

mytailorisrich wrote: post #260
PakG1 wrote: post #253

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The difference being that the world never agreed to the idea that France was a part of Germany. The world has for the most part agreed that Taiwan is a part of China. It is what it is. Whatever people's personal feelings might be, that is what most of the world has agreed to at an international diplomatic level. Only insignificant countries like Paraguay have decided to consider Taiwan an independent nation state.

Taiwan is factually an independent state and in practice recognised as such by everyone, including the PRC. "Nation state" has a different meaning and that's not really the case for Taiwan. There's a lot of propaganda like for HK, which is popular with the Western public who is naive and not well informed (as all public)

We can go back and forth about this, but political feelings aside, although Taiwan acts like an independent state and has its own government, no important independent state treats it like an independent state, including the US. Donald Trump is the first president in four decades to even send a cabinet-level official to Taiwan when Alex Azar went to visit last month. It is what it is. Whether you like it or not, no important country has official diplomatic relations with Taiwan because they've all agreed to the One China policy. It is partially because of this One China policy that Taiwan's economy has deteriorated so much, they are not on equal footing with other countries in being able to develop trade agreements with other nations. China has them boxed in.

Re: Hong Kong mourns the end of its way of life

#268

Post by andi999 »

toyg wrote: post #178
bitxbitxbitcoin wrote: post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the onus here was more on the UK than the US because the UK was the one with an agreement with the Chinese government that was broken. I agree that the US response has already been a lot.

The UK effectively offered asylum to millions of HKers, in a move basically unprecedented after WWII, and drew a line over previous plans to coordinate on things like 5G and nuclear. What else could they have done? In a world of superpowers, the UK alone is small potatoes.

Any source for that asylum claim?

Re: Hong Kong mourns the end of its way of life

#269

Post by toyg »

andi999 wrote: post #268
toyg wrote: post #178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The UK effectively offered asylum to millions of HKers, in a move basically unprecedented after WWII, and drew a line over previous plans to coordinate on things like 5G and nuclear. What else could they have done? In a world of superpowers, the UK alone is small potatoes.

Any source for that asylum claim?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-53246899

Also discussed on HN: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23701333

I am absolutely no fan of the current UK admin but on this issue I think they've done the decent thing (which surprised me, tbh).

Re: Hong Kong mourns the end of its way of life

#270

Post by andi999 »

toyg wrote: post #269
andi999 wrote: post #268

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Any source for that asylum claim?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-53246899 Also discussed on HN: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23701333 I am absolutely no fan of the current UK admin but on this issue I think they've done the decent thing (which surprised me, tbh).

thanks. just to clarify, it is not asylum and not yet available (but this is not criticism it is very good) https://www.gov.uk/guidance/british-nationals-overseas-in-ho... I dont know about the uk, but prob biggest diff to asylum is, that people in asylum get money/provisions while in this scheme you need to bring money (modest 6 month worth though)
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