The Truth Is Paywalled but the Lies Are Free • Hacker News Board

Re: The Truth Is Paywalled but the Lies Are Free

#261

Post by jimkleiber » Mon, Aug 03, 2020, 3:44 PM UTC

andrewtbham wrote: post #244

javajosh wrote: post #213

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a mistake to judge an organization on one, or even a handful of incidents. There should be a pattern of inaccuracy and bias before you "cancel" a news source. This is one of the unsung problems of the modern world, the growing impossibility of keeping an accurate "reputation" in your brain. Virtually everyone and everything has been accused of being evil, in general, or specifically. It's no longer good enough t…

at least on the topic of tesla, nyt has been wrong and unfair against tesla for about 10 years. i really don't know about other topics... but... pg repeatedly questions the integrity of nyt and has personally been the victim of their bias. https://twitter.com/paulg/status/1236975851255857152?lang=en https://twitter.com/paulg/status/1236979160100343812

In the first link you provided, PG put two photos: one of the NYT article and one of his HN post. The NYT article yes, condensed his lengthy post into one sentence, which will almost always be incomplete, but they also linked that quote to what I assume was the HN post. I guess it seems to me that PG is upset they didn't fully encapsulate his ideas, and I'd probably be frustrated as well. But is that the role of a journalist? And is it even possible to condense all of someone else's material and communicate it to another audience without losing information?

Maybe it's just me, but I use journalists as a stepping stone for learning more about a topic. I see them writing summaries (sometimes inaccurate) of things that happen in the world and then if I'm curious, I try to dig deeper into the primary sources to learn more.

I'd imagine almost every primary source believes journalists get the story wrong now and then, as the journalist doesn't say it the way they would say it. But I marvel in today's world, where I have such quick access to priamry sources to learn more.

Re: The Truth Is Paywalled but the Lies Are Free

#262

Post by mistermann » Mon, Aug 03, 2020, 3:46 PM UTC

bena wrote: post #190

listenallyall wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The absolute worst posts on HN start with "I just want..." and then selfishly lowball the cost of whatever it is they want. Anyway, you've described a cable bundle model, not Netflix's model.

"Just". If I could get rid of that word, I would. "Just" is the tip of the iceberg. It often means the speaker has no idea how to implement or what it would take to implement.

Good point. There are a fair number of words and language forms that are often "tells" of how the person saying them conceptualized and overly simplifies complex scenarios.

Re: The Truth Is Paywalled but the Lies Are Free

#263

Post by brendoelfrendo » Mon, Aug 03, 2020, 3:48 PM UTC

kyleblarson wrote: post #243

Of course they left the Wall Street Journal (paywalled and quite expensive) out of their list because it doesn't fit their narrative.

As in... the WSJ publishes lies but is paywalled? That's generally not my experience; WSJ is nowhere near where it used to be, but isn't among the trash tier of journalism, yet.

The "media bias" chart from Ad Fontes media puts them at a slight right slant, with reporting accuracy more-or-less on par with publications like Newsweek, The Economist, and WaPo.[0][1]

[0] Chart: https://www.adfontesmedia.com/gallery/ [1] Methodology: https://www.adfontesmedia.com/how-ad-fontes-ranks-news-sourc...

Re: The Truth Is Paywalled but the Lies Are Free

#264

Post by goldenManatee » Mon, Aug 03, 2020, 3:48 PM UTC

marcus_holmes wrote: post #133

Dotnaught wrote: post #124

The linked article concludes: "Creators must be compensated well. But at the same time we have to try to keep things that are important and profound from getting locked away where few people will see them. The truth needs to be free and universal." Let's also consider whether lies should be made more expensive. Free costs more than it's worth.

As always, who judges whether something is true?

By that logic, who merits being judge of who other merits being judge? The act of asking your question, is itself a judgement, and a vote to silence others - which is, in whole, a politically violent act.

Re: The Truth Is Paywalled but the Lies Are Free

#265

Post by dragonwriter » Mon, Aug 03, 2020, 3:49 PM UTC

googthrowaway42 wrote: post #214

dragonwriter wrote: post #208

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There is no Republican Snopes because conservatives, since the Enlightenment, don't do sense making that way (i.e. via institutional consensus). Conservatives have always done sense making via institutional consensus, even moreso than post-enlightenment liberals, though the institutions that they tend to appeal to are those explicitly devoted to their ideological world view (whether it's the organs of a particular…

> objectives facts (what is) rather than ideology (what should be) What is a "fact" or what is "true" is dependent on your values (aka your ideology). This is one of Nietzsche's main contributions to philosophy. There are things like mathematical and logical truth and really basic physical assertions (e.g. the sky is blue) but those are qualitatively different than what we're talking about. Both normative and positiv…

> What is a "fact" or what is "true" in dependent on your values (aka your ideology). This is one of Nietzsche's main contributions to philosophy.

No, it's not. That's one of the Enlightenment’s many contributions to philosophy and the foundation on which the advances in knowledge of the universe enabling the explosion of post-Enlightenment technical progress is built.

Obviously, one might have ideological, aesthetic, or other preferences for what facts ought to be, and one might have beliefs about questions of fact that ultimately result from those preferences, but—Roadrunner cartoons not withstanding—beliefs about the material universe don't trump material facts.

(However, it's kind of funny that you are making, as a positive argument in favor of conservatism, exactly the argument that conservatives usually not only reject, but also attribute—not entirely inaccurately though certainly overgenerally—to the “postmodern” left and cite as a key reason for rejecting the left.)

Re: The Truth Is Paywalled but the Lies Are Free

#266

Post by brendoelfrendo » Mon, Aug 03, 2020, 3:50 PM UTC

vixen99 wrote: post #119

Yaa101 wrote: post #55

This is why I sponsor the Guardian, they stay open and give good news.

The Guardian as with other newspapers has to selectively report the news which it does using a vocabulary which implicitly or explicitly reflects their opinions about the news. Naturally the overall output confirms the prejudices of their readership. It's 'good news', they say.

Ah yes, pesky words, revealing bias and confirming prejudices. I only subscribe to newspapers that print their headlines as formal logical statements.

Re: The Truth Is Paywalled but the Lies Are Free

#267

Post by alexashka » Mon, Aug 03, 2020, 3:50 PM UTC

The author would've been better served by pointing out the paywalls of research done in universities, funded by people's taxes.

That'd be somewhat close to 'the truth is paywalled'.

Newspapers and truth are a contradiction - truth is boring, newspapers cannot afford to be boring because they compete on entertainment value or illusion of 'being informed', not truth value, therefore every newspaper panders and skews 'the truth' in exchange for entertainment or 'being informed' value, that's their job.

Paywalled or not, newspapers are drug dealers for the junkies addicted to a 'need to be informed'. Twitter is beating them to the punch. On twitter you can be infinitely 'informed' and be an active participant in 'informing' others, which is why journalists and 'intellectuals' can't get enough of it.

Re: The Truth Is Paywalled but the Lies Are Free

#268

Post by JMTQp8lwXL » Mon, Aug 03, 2020, 3:51 PM UTC

Please get a library card if you wish to read quality (often paywalled) news sources for free. Your tax dollars (going to your city/county) are already paying for access. Best of all, it's digital. Your library card number will grant you huge access to all of this digitally and in near real time (e.g., the databases are updated daily).

Re: The Truth Is Paywalled but the Lies Are Free

#269

Post by SamWhited » Mon, Aug 03, 2020, 3:53 PM UTC

This is specifically why I choose to support sources that don't have paywalls, but are still trustworthy news sources like Vox, The Guardian, etc. In these particular cases they do have an editorial stance that I happen to agree with but others may not, but the facts are still there and they're largely trustworthy. They're also open about their editorial stance and biases, so if you don't agree you can still get the facts and be skeptical about the editorial stance. But either way, personally I like both these examples so I try to support them instead of organizations that put up a paywall. I'm sure if your worldview is different you can find organizations that are legit but also have different funding models to support, or just learn to separate facts from editorializing or op-eds.

Re: The Truth Is Paywalled but the Lies Are Free

#270

Post by mateus1 » Mon, Aug 03, 2020, 3:53 PM UTC

andrewtbham wrote: post #228

blueyes wrote: post #197

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What does the author of this piece want? The "truth", or even a plausible interpretation of the facts, is expensive to produce. It is even more expensive when you do it every day covering a wide array of topics. If you value facts and good analysis, pay for them. It's that simple. Sure, the New York Times gets a lot of things wrong. So does everyone else, including many commenters on HN. * But a lot of what the New Y…

I will never pay for the nyt... I would much rather give my money to a patreon where someone actually knows something about the topics I am intersted in. Journalists reporting on topics they don't understand doesn't make sense... https://www.patreon.com/hyperchange https://www.patreon.com/EverydayAstronaut furthermore, nyt are mostly shills for their advertisers. That is why nyt trashed tesla because GM and Ford adve…

You can't compare niche edutainment channels to the major news outlets. NYT is in the business of credible news, these small content makers aren't credible sources of news.