ZSA Moonlander: A next-generation ergonomic keyboard • Hacker News Board

Re: ZSA Moonlander: A next-generation ergonomic keyboard

#261

Post by wishinghand » Sat, Aug 01, 2020, 3:26 PM UTC

andrewla wrote: post #52

One thing I have never been able to understand about split keyboard designs is why they don't put the characters on the split ("Y/T G/H V/B/N") on _both_ sides of the keyboard. I mean, are key caps a high cost? There's a correct way to type, but it doesn't need to be so strict. Sometimes (often) the natural use of a keyboard (like holding down a control character for a sequence of keys) makes it so that we type on th…

When I first bought a split keyboard, I found that I was stretching far too much to reach the "Y" key with my left hand. I'm grateful for the strict layout so that I type more ergonomically.

Also keycap set makers generally just include one of every key.

Re: ZSA Moonlander: A next-generation ergonomic keyboard

#262

Post by wishinghand » Sat, Aug 01, 2020, 3:33 PM UTC

yepguy wrote: post #209

Stop making split keyboards! You don't need 2 separate pieces; all you really need are slightly angled keys away from the center. See the Truly Ergonomic keyboard[1] for example. That layout also has the advantage of being a design you could use for a laptop, if only manufacturers put actual effort into their laptop keyboards. [1]: https://trulyergonomic.com/ergonomic-keyboards/

> all you really need are slightly angled keys away from the center.

Citation needed. What if I don't like the angle TECK chose? Laptops for sure should start slightly angling, but if the unit is separate from the computer, why rant against user choice?

Re: ZSA Moonlander: A next-generation ergonomic keyboard

#263

Post by wishinghand » Sat, Aug 01, 2020, 3:39 PM UTC

cfontes wrote: post #91

I swear I don't mean to offend anyone, but it's insane that people pay this much for a keyboard, mouse, headphone, an so on. You can literally feed a family for a whole year in some countries with this money. Good ergonomics are awesome, macros are cool, but this is like a Channel Bag for nerds, if you like it awesome but don't deceive yourself into needing it. I love tech as everyone in here, I like my gizmos as wel…

Some of the mechanical keyboard scene is caving into collectorism, but it's not insane to pay this much for a keyboard that saved my wrists and career.

There's no keyboard out there for $100 that's split, ortholiner-ish, QMK or similar programmable, has layers, has thumb clusters, backlit keys, tented, and has hot-swappable mechanical keyswitches. I really wish there was.

I'm not offended, but there just isn't a product that compares at a price point that you think isn't excessive.

Re: ZSA Moonlander: A next-generation ergonomic keyboard

#264

Post by wishinghand » Sat, Aug 01, 2020, 3:40 PM UTC

sawaruna wrote: post #154

If anyone is interested in building their own split ergo: https://blog.splitkb.com/blog/introducing-the-kyria

I think the Kyria would be perfect for me if it had individual RGB backlit keys. I love the idea of the rotary encoders.

Re: ZSA Moonlander: A next-generation ergonomic keyboard

#265

Post by wishinghand » Sat, Aug 01, 2020, 3:42 PM UTC

jerezz wrote: post #212

Has anyone come across an ergo keyboard like this that has a mouse roller on the thumb pad? I think my arms would appreciate a way to interact with the mouse without moving my hands away from the keys. I'm using a Kinesis Advantage2 right now, but I still need to move my hand to get to the touchpad.

The Kyria keyboard has sockets for rotary encoders on it, but that's more like a scroll wheel than a trackball. I've seen some folks hack them so that they can use Playstation style joysticks or thumb trackballs instead.

Re: ZSA Moonlander: A next-generation ergonomic keyboard

#266

Post by wishinghand » Sat, Aug 01, 2020, 3:43 PM UTC

splitpremium wrote: post #15

Why do split keyboards charge a premium? Microsoft makes contoured keybords for 100usd. In India great quality mech keyboards costs $40, you bang it all day on games and it lasts. I can pay for innovation but this style is old

Economies of scale. I bet Microsoft sells more Sculpts in a month than ZSA does in a year. Plus microsoft can make slim margins on their keyboard and make it up elsewhere; ZSA just sells keyboards and related accessories.

Re: ZSA Moonlander: A next-generation ergonomic keyboard

#267

Post by wishinghand » Sat, Aug 01, 2020, 3:43 PM UTC

charlieo88 wrote: post #70

No video of someone using it, at speed? Seems a bit sketchy.

I mean, it's a keyboard. Are you expecting the flux capacitor to get backed up and thrash the alluvial dampers or something?

Re: ZSA Moonlander: A next-generation ergonomic keyboard

#268

Post by wishinghand » Sat, Aug 01, 2020, 3:44 PM UTC

Theodores wrote: post #28

I appreciate that there is a market for ergonomic fancy keyboards, but can't we just get the standard keyboard right? I wish that there was a keyboard company out there that focused on standard keyboards with attention paid to supporting all locales. Choice for the US consumer might be great but elsewhere in the English speaking world you start getting compromises. Essentially you can get a US keyboard with a few of…

Why bother with one standardized keyboard for all locales? What's wrong with different regions having their own?

Re: ZSA Moonlander: A next-generation ergonomic keyboard

#269

Post by RedBeetDeadpool » Sat, Aug 01, 2020, 9:13 PM UTC

clavalle wrote: post #61

RedBeetDeadpool wrote: post #30

This is pretty cool. I was thinking about ordering and building a dactyl manuform [1] after my latest upgrade, the kyria [2] which improved the inflammation in my index fingers, failed to truly solve my issues because they put my thumbs in a very contorted position. I love how you can rotate the thumb keys as its unnatural to have your thumbs press keys in the same direction as the rest of your fingers. Having starte…

The Kyria...that looks like a lot of thought went into it. And I like that you can download templates so you can print them out and find the right size.

I love my kyria, The number of keyboards the author went through before making this design in my opinion highlight all the issues he solved.

Re: ZSA Moonlander: A next-generation ergonomic keyboard

#270

Post by RedBeetDeadpool » Sat, Aug 01, 2020, 9:28 PM UTC

johnm wrote: post #113

RedBeetDeadpool wrote: post #30

This is pretty cool. I was thinking about ordering and building a dactyl manuform [1] after my latest upgrade, the kyria [2] which improved the inflammation in my index fingers, failed to truly solve my issues because they put my thumbs in a very contorted position. I love how you can rotate the thumb keys as its unnatural to have your thumbs press keys in the same direction as the rest of your fingers. Having starte…

Can you add more details about the problems you had with the Kyria thumb positioning? Too much usage of the inward thumb keys? Angles?

Its the angle of the thumb keys, which is the restriction of printing all the keys for one hand on one board. I like the keyboard linked here because the thumb keys are at a different angle. I really like the kyria though because of the aggressive staggering. It resolved a lot of issues I got because my middle finger is so much longer than my index finger. But in order to take advantage of the stagger, I have to keep my wrists at the same angle of the plate, and if I keep my wrists at that same angle then my thumbs have to hit the keys with their side and tuck to the side of my palm like a trex because there's not as much space between the thumb and the keys. The ideal angle that the thumb bends is roughly perpendicular to the angle the rest of your fingers bend. The thumb cluster though is a fantastic improvement over pinky modifiers, that's not my complaint.