The NBA bans customers from putting ‘freehongkong’ on customized league jerseys • Hacker News Board

Re: The NBA bans customers from putting ‘freehongkong’ on customized league jerseys

#261

Post by amrx431 » Mon, Jul 20, 2020, 4:09 AM UTC

11thEarlOfMar wrote: post #83

Here's another angle. The increasing censorship within China leaves less and less opportunity for the greater Chinese population to learn about the capabilities of other countries. A few examples of excellence that are still available to Chinese citizens are the NBA, Apple products, US education and Tesla cars. Most nations export excellence of some type to China. Having these examples in their hands or on their scre…

Nope, this is wishful thinking along with the lines "that allowing China to flaunt WTO rules and prosper will help it to be democratic."

Counter-points

- China doesn't want to sensor innovation, but control it.

- Chinese companies and people have access to the latest innovation in all fields as most of the stuff is assembled there.

- China reverse-engineers these innovations of West and float the market with competition which are many a times subsidized by Communist Party.

- Censorship of individuals does not matter as long as Chinese companies have access to latest innovation which they can reverse engineer.

Re: The NBA bans customers from putting ‘freehongkong’ on customized league jerseys

#262

Post by uranusjr » Mon, Jul 20, 2020, 4:09 AM UTC

throwaway_kufu wrote: post #208

throwaway2474 wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your comment is about 15 years out of date. There isn’t much that is “excellent beyond what is available” in China anymore. This type of thinking is why western foreign policy continues to get China totally wrong. Chinese people who study abroad are more often confused by the things missing in the west than they are liberated in the way you describe, in my experience.

> There isn’t much that is “excellent beyond what is available” in China anymore. Democracy and freedom of thought. Despite your experience of Foreign Chinese Students being confused rather than liberated by the West...in my experience I’ve never met a Foreign Chinese Student that didn’t want to permanently relocate to Canada or the US.

They want to relocate not for the freedom and democracy, but for the advantages they can take out of it. If you actually get into the Chinese community, you can hear many of them happily bloat about how well they do in a free society, while criticising thngs being “too free” when the freedom causes them trouble. Freedom is good, as long as I get all the benefits and none of the responsibilities, is basically the mentality.

Source: I am Taiwanese. We get way too many of these people.

Re: The NBA bans customers from putting ‘freehongkong’ on customized league jerseys

#263

Post by smacke » Mon, Jul 20, 2020, 4:58 AM UTC

dehrmann wrote: post #210

smacke wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

American here. I spent a couple of months in China and have Chinese friends, so here are a few things off the top of my head (take with a grain of salt and consider talking with Chinese people for a more authentic perspective): - Reliable high-speed railway. - Night markets -- lots of people socializing in the street into the early hours of the morning, enjoying street food, beer, etc. - A sense of shared experience…

> "economic" liberties I think that's a false dilemma. The Nordic states have roughly the same personal liberties as the US, but the welfare system means people are much more financially secure.

I probably should have phrased it differently. I think the attitude in China is that, if somehow forced to choose between individual liberties and economic prosperity, many will choose the latter -- because they see it as enabling the former more capably than any sort of constitutional rights.

Btw I'm intentionally trying to stay take a neutral stance on this topic when discussing my understanding of attitudes in China. In fact my personal viewpoint is that economic prosperity without a strong and healthy respect for human rights will have bounded lifetime, but that's a different discussion. Regardless I think it's important to understand all the viewpoints.

Re: The NBA bans customers from putting ‘freehongkong’ on customized league jerseys

#264

Post by qbaqbaqba » Mon, Jul 20, 2020, 5:12 AM UTC

theseadroid wrote: post #221

kodablah wrote: post #213

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I read and appreciate that blog post. Yet to address any China problems without recognizing any Chinese government fallacies means we're not even having a complete discussion here. I acknowledge the fear of including them, but one's stance on government policies is required to really get their thought on the whole topic.

Thanks. I dont fear Chinese government actually and I think it is bad. It's just we have a lot difference on where it is the worst part and how to make it better and by how much time. Truth to be told there are so many solutions proposed by smart ppl but I dont see many that wont hurt regular Chinese ppl more than what the current regime is doing :(

> the current regime

Of course American regime.

Re: The NBA bans customers from putting ‘freehongkong’ on customized league jerseys

#265

Post by peacefulhat » Mon, Jul 20, 2020, 5:14 AM UTC

I tried buying some custom Nikes with "ADIDAS" written on the side. The online tool explicitly banned it. I got the online form to take "PUMA" but the shoes arrived with no custom message.

Re: The NBA bans customers from putting ‘freehongkong’ on customized league jerseys

#266

Post by [deleted] » Mon, Jul 20, 2020, 5:19 AM UTC

moate wrote: post #244

supernova87a wrote: post #222

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How about not buying the shirt then, instead of complaining about the message you're helping to fund while buying it?

I mean, people would prefer to not have to walk away from the things they enjoy. You're being a little pointedly obtuse here. People want the world to reflect their values. Very few political vegans would prefer to ignore that there are still restaurants serving meat, they'd rather the culture shift away from that sort of practice. Similarly, people would prefer the sport they enjoy watching not support the governmen…

[deleted]

Re: The NBA bans customers from putting ‘freehongkong’ on customized league jerseys

#267

Post by pmontra » Mon, Jul 20, 2020, 5:22 AM UTC

theseadroid wrote: post #200

pmontra wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Examples? From my direct experience from a 3 weeks journey 5 years ago: A super app like WeChat. I'm happy we don't have one because super app == super control. (BTW WhatsApp was still legal back then.) A ban on gas powered small motorcycles. All of them were electric, some with a retrofitted electric engine, some natively electric. I wish we did the same. I can't think about other things that were or could look bett…

Here's one of the most important things I can think of that's pushing me back to China more and more each day: I live in one of the major NA cities and I dont feel safe walking outside after dark (after 8pm). I have a friend got robbed on knifepoint around 11pm this past March. The case hasn't been closed. Numerous friends' homes got broke in and stuff stolen and cases are all cold. And I was almost hit by a left tur…

I didn't notice any difference in perceived safety. I routinely walk late in the night, even past midnight, but I live in Europe. North America might be different. I don't have any recent direct experience there. SF and NYC were ok about 20 years ago. Lot of people walking around in the night.

Re: The NBA bans customers from putting ‘freehongkong’ on customized league jerseys

#268

Post by jbay808 » Mon, Jul 20, 2020, 5:28 AM UTC

eigenvector wrote: post #162

nsl73 wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Public transportation, affordable healthcare, & weechat are all things that are significantly better in China. — An American that spent a few weeks in China.

Parent comment said 'the West', not America. Public transportation and affordable healthcare are the norm in most highly developed Western democracies such as the UK, France, Sweden, etc.

This is true, although in China's case in addition to being high quality it's also absurdly cheap.

Re: The NBA bans customers from putting ‘freehongkong’ on customized league jerseys

#269

Post by oneweekwonder » Mon, Jul 20, 2020, 6:20 AM UTC

whoevercares wrote: post #134

pmontra wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Examples? From my direct experience from a 3 weeks journey 5 years ago: A super app like WeChat. I'm happy we don't have one because super app == super control. (BTW WhatsApp was still legal back then.) A ban on gas powered small motorcycles. All of them were electric, some with a retrofitted electric engine, some natively electric. I wish we did the same. I can't think about other things that were or could look bett…

Half joke/half serious: 1. Food(any objection?) 2. Public transportation: high speed rail road 3. Huge and fancy malls: USA is behind believe it or not 4. E-payment & WeChat: Chinese people think differently. 5. Food delivery and all kinds of half-day delivery 6. Free of Racism: invisible ceiling 7. Cultural recreational activities that you don’t understand 8. Crowded.

> 2. Public transportation: high speed rail road

Heh, it is easy to do high speed rail roads if you don't value human life. [0]

[0]: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2011/jul/25/chinese-rail-c...

Re: The NBA bans customers from putting ‘freehongkong’ on customized league jerseys

#270

Post by rumanator » Mon, Jul 20, 2020, 6:26 AM UTC

throwaway_kufu wrote: post #208

throwaway2474 wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your comment is about 15 years out of date. There isn’t much that is “excellent beyond what is available” in China anymore. This type of thinking is why western foreign policy continues to get China totally wrong. Chinese people who study abroad are more often confused by the things missing in the west than they are liberated in the way you describe, in my experience.

> There isn’t much that is “excellent beyond what is available” in China anymore. Democracy and freedom of thought. Despite your experience of Foreign Chinese Students being confused rather than liberated by the West...in my experience I’ve never met a Foreign Chinese Student that didn’t want to permanently relocate to Canada or the US.

> Democracy and freedom of thought.

Some people don't miss that at all,as their personal views are so neatly aligned with the ruling regime that a) their thoughts are not constrained, thus free, and b) having any other form of government would represent a suboptimal solution dictated by a ignorant majority.

This has been observed in pretty much any totalitarian regime since ever in a fraction of the population that in some cases might be the majority.