Earlier quoted context omitted.
Yes, but easier to just write tests.
And easier still just to use static types.
Often not, if the overhead of adding them outweighs their utility for the project.
Do Not Follow JavaScript Trends
261–270 of 275 posts
Re: Do Not Follow JavaScript Trends
#262Not just JS. JS is an enormous ecosystem, so it shows this issue, but pretty much all tech (and other industries, as well), have the same problems. We can have problems when folks start suddenly painting "The New Thing™" over classic designs and architectures. In my experience, that's even worse than rewriting everything. Also, it can become a requirement for hiring, because some manager, or their "top tech," have su…
> and use MVVM, or PM.
PM?
Re: Do Not Follow JavaScript Trends
#263Earlier quoted context omitted.
I’m not sure if you realize your own paradox. Is churn really so prevalent? You then point out how prevalent it is in the .NET community. Yeah it’s prevalent, and if we resemble other shitty ecosystems then we need to introspect.
I do realize it. Maybe I should have added: churn as compared to what? JS doesn’t exist in a vacuum. Most language ecosystems experience churn. I explicitly mentioned we shouldn’t hold everyone to the gold standard of stability that is Clojure. But... maybe we should? I’m not entirely sure that churn is a binary good or bad. When you think, “Hm I have a more elegant solution to this common problem.” And then offer it…
[deleted]
Re: Do Not Follow JavaScript Trends
#264Earlier quoted context omitted.
I’m not sure if you realize your own paradox. Is churn really so prevalent? You then point out how prevalent it is in the .NET community. Yeah it’s prevalent, and if we resemble other shitty ecosystems then we need to introspect.
I do realize it. Maybe I should have added: churn as compared to what? JS doesn’t exist in a vacuum. Most language ecosystems experience churn. I explicitly mentioned we shouldn’t hold everyone to the gold standard of stability that is Clojure. But... maybe we should? I’m not entirely sure that churn is a binary good or bad. When you think, “Hm I have a more elegant solution to this common problem.” And then offer it…
I’m waiting for the day I can enter a dot net C# codebase the same way you can enter frontend.
None of you make your own landscape easy to enter, and I’m certainly not open to you guys dictating anything in this realm.
We have frontend churn, we are working on it.
You didn’t work on dot net churn while it was occurring, and you show up with the same attitude before the apex on front end. You couldn’t stop it once, and you’re here to enable the next?
If you know how to stop it, talk. Otherwise stay out of it.
We’re trying not to become you.
Re: Do Not Follow JavaScript Trends
#265Not just JS. JS is an enormous ecosystem, so it shows this issue, but pretty much all tech (and other industries, as well), have the same problems. We can have problems when folks start suddenly painting "The New Thing™" over classic designs and architectures. In my experience, that's even worse than rewriting everything. Also, it can become a requirement for hiring, because some manager, or their "top tech," have su…
> and use MVVM, or PM. PM?
Presentation Manager.
Sorry. That was the term I learned, many moons ago. I learned it as a Microsoft pattern, and I used it to create Web-focused SDKs.
The more familiar one is MVP.
Really, if you are talking about creating a UIKit or AppKit app, you should use good old MVC, even though it’s “square.”
That’s because it is the pattern the toolkit was specifically designed to implement, and other models actually introduce dangerous departures from the norm.
SwiftUI and React are much better for MVVM or MVP.
Re: Do Not Follow JavaScript Trends
#266Earlier quoted context omitted.
Eh? You can't "tell" what framework a site is using just by interacting with the site. What you see is what the designers decided. A better proxy, though weak, would be the number of UI bugs you encounter. The best metric would require you to have insider knowledge, to see how much work is saved by reusing components and writing them declaratively.
You can usually tell react based things from the poor performance and bad handling of network conditions.
Nah, this is just because tutorials for these new frameworks does not include network handling.
It's far more easier to put todo list app or counter app to your blogs.
Really, we need people to come together to build a proper knowledge base rather than fighting for influence with hype and easy blog posts
Re: Do Not Follow JavaScript Trends
#267Earlier quoted context omitted.
Yow. I have an application growing out of control in Streamlit ( https://streamlit.io ), which is a rshiny-type interactive dashboard gizmo. I'm now able to consider rewriting it with a proper front-end. It's like a whole world I had been sealed off from has reopened.
(Note: I'm Head of Developer Relations at Streamlit) Out of curiosity, which features are you looking for in a "proper" front-end? Flexibility?
Streamlit is magic and I don't want this to come off as a dismissal, but it can be unpredictably unreliable. I keep having this issue if I run > 0.58:
https://github.com/streamlit/streamlit/issues/1440
It's over a month old now, with multiple people reporting the same bug and iterating on the problem with no apparent narrowing towards a reason for why this happens, let alone a solution.
Re: Do Not Follow JavaScript Trends
#268Earlier quoted context omitted.
I have to chime in as someone who created an Angular.js app in 2017. I suppose it happens. Not that I actually wanted to, I was just working with a dumbass who overruled me. I don't really have anything it say, I just have a really strong negative association with this specific topic, I guess...
You are not the only one. It is just a question of personality, some people feel comfortable in Angular world, most people are like you and me.
It's probably not that angular is dumb - using angularjs 1.x in 2017 is dumb. And I do concur as someone who also wrote angularjs app at that time and eventually left the company over it.
Re: Do Not Follow JavaScript Trends
#269Earlier quoted context omitted.
Well it depends, because maybe you're using Styled Components or some other library that ties you into the React/JSX ecosystem. Or maybe your app passes a 'theme' through various contexts and you have to find the right theme and find the thing you need to tweak the background colour for, which might be in a CSS file pulled in through Webpack if you're lucky. If you're not lucky, maybe there's some funky SASS/LESS set…
If this seems absurd to anyone, this aligns closely with my experience in React and even more with Gatsby....
I think if I was promoted to CEO, I would go full reactionary and demand that all front end javascript code must be vanilla and interact with the dom directly, and all styling contained in css
Re: Do Not Follow JavaScript Trends
#270Earlier quoted context omitted.
(Note: I'm Head of Developer Relations at Streamlit) Out of curiosity, which features are you looking for in a "proper" front-end? Flexibility?
Streamlit is magic and I don't want this to come off as a dismissal, but it can be unpredictably unreliable. I keep having this issue if I run > 0.58: https://github.com/streamlit/streamlit/issues/1440 It's over a month old now, with multiple people reporting the same bug and iterating on the problem with no apparent narrowing towards a reason for why this happens, let alone a solution.
Thanks for clarifying. Since HN isn't the right place for a detailed discussion, I would invite you to comment on that issue and try to help us work through it.
As one of our engineers mentions in the linked issue, this bug is hard to trigger (as is the nature of many bugs), and she is working on a solution[1]. This issue has also been reported here[2], with the solution of adding time.sleep(1) inside the loop usually resolving that problem.
[1] https://github.com/streamlit/streamlit/pull/1494 [2] https://discuss.streamlit.io/t/displaying-images-from-opencv...