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Procrastination is driven by our desire to avoid difficult emotions, says expert

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Re: Procrastination is driven by our desire to avoid difficult emotions, says expert

#261
post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Likewise. I've long thought it analogous to the "Balmer's Peak". It's frustrating, because it's not like it's a solution to be tired all the time. If I'm sleeping better, I get less work done and more life done, feel happier and better, but get swamped by work later. If I'm exhausted, I get some work done and no life done, feel horrible and eventually dip back into depression, but I'm a little bit more on top of work…

I had never heard of Balmers Peak, however it's a well understood phenomenon when playing pool, magic spot for me is between pints 2 and 3.

I think it's a thing in most "sports" that both don't really require a lot of physical exertion, and that are turn-based, where you're given enough time to fall into the mental trap of overthinking things.

For me, this applies to traditional bar sports like pool, darts, shuffleboard, beer pong, etc., but also to some more traditional sports like golf and bowling (where drinking is also semi-acceptable). I'm much better after 2 drinks, but by 4 drinks I'm absolutely awful.

I've read alcohol is actually banned as a performance enhancing drug in olympic shooting (along with most other depressants), allegedly because they help to steady your hand from shaking due to nervousness in a high-stakes competition. Personally, I'm sure there's also a mental benefit to just not overthinking things, which applies to all the activities above, and can help with programming as well.

Re: Procrastination is driven by our desire to avoid difficult emotions, says expert

#262

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I view Ritalin and Adderall as a performance enhancer. I have never seen a biological study proving ADHD except perhaps some EEG. Virtually everyone I have known prescribed amphetamines abused them. (Anecdotal warning) And my ex roommate was a large prescriber of Adderall. He would see patients for 3 minutes. He had 3 homes (one an $8m condo) and drove a matte black Lamborghini Aventador. He was way overweight and dr…

There's no "biological proof" of a lot of things that has to do with a brain, and while some people do anything for money - even if their title say "doctor" - ADD/ADHD is still a very, very, real thing. We might still don't know of if it's really a disability of the mind, or of the society, but for those who suffer it, it doesn't really matter. The drugs can certainly be used as performance enhancers, but that doesn'…

When you say doing the basics of life what specifically do you mean?

I'm asking because I get the feeling that other people consider the basics to be a wider set of things than I do. For me the basics means feeding yourself and having some relationships. But for other people it means being able to keep appointments, basic planning and follow through, ability to sit still through long ceremonies, not letting dishes/laundry get to the point where you have no clean dishes/clothes every single time.

The second set of stuff is things I've struggled with in my life to a further degree than my peers. It's the kind of things that teenagers are bad at and imagine adults with ADHD continue to be bad at.

The problem I think is everybody occasionally struggles with this stuff. They don't understand what it would mean to always struggle with all of it all the time. What it means for it not to be a choice.

Is that what you had in mind?

Re: Procrastination is driven by our desire to avoid difficult emotions, says expert

#263

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I view Ritalin and Adderall as a performance enhancer. I have never seen a biological study proving ADHD except perhaps some EEG. Virtually everyone I have known prescribed amphetamines abused them. (Anecdotal warning) And my ex roommate was a large prescriber of Adderall. He would see patients for 3 minutes. He had 3 homes (one an $8m condo) and drove a matte black Lamborghini Aventador. He was way overweight and dr…

That view is actually both extremely common, and very dangerous for the people genuinely suffering from ADHD symptoms, like myself. Many years of misery could’ve been avoided had I not met people that thought this way, earlier in life.

Do you have any good resources for readers who think they may have symptoms? Or actions they could take?

Re: Procrastination is driven by our desire to avoid difficult emotions, says expert

#264

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I got diagnosed with ADD in my late thirties, and by then I could only do the dishes and clean my apartment if I didn't sleep the night before. Since then, I've met several people with ADD/ADHD that has the same experience, and barely anyone else that have the same experience.

How did you end up getting diagnosed, what does the treatment and result look like, any side affects?

This is too long, weird, and yeah. I was too tired, sorry about that. But anyway, meds+therapy+physical movement+probably magnesium and zinc is good, only meds usually a bit pointless.

If your near term memory is especially crap, prescription n-back training when you are on meds can help improve it a little, and sometimes a lot. I sort of broke the scale on that one, apparently, was weird.

Side effects, I haven't had a lot except while trying out new medication.

I'll look at this sorry mess tomorrow, if you have any question I can answer :)

For me it was a very circuitous way, but after multiple doctor appointments in my late 30's for what looked as a depression without the depressive part, or getting burnt out by essentially doing almost nothing, I got sent to a therapist that sent me to a psychiatrist, and a few convolutions later I got a thorough evaluation by some specialists in Stockholm. They had no doubt at all, I ticked all the boxes for ADD. Probably on the autism spectra too, but I was in such a terrible shape that they felt it pointless to bother with it at least before I was somewhat on my feet again.

My scoring for attention to boring tasks was apparently through the floor terrible.

By the way, if you find yourself trying to find a reason why everything I write is crap, it's okay. I would have too, because it would have felt impossible, and nobody wants to do the impossible. That feeling is true, but maybe not entirely reliable!

The treatment varies as there are yet no clear roadmap. However, if you only get offered a stimulant, that's a bad sign. Go somewhere else if you can.

The treatment should be quite individual, the effects of ADHD on mind and body over time can vary a lot, and the most important role of the stimulants for most people is that it enables purposeful change. You probably won't have much experience of that, so it's no good to be entirely on your own.

You would start with figuring out if one of the stimulants works for you, and at what dose. This should be a bit annoying, take a fair bit of time, and you'll probably end up trying more than one until you find something you tolerate well. It can take a while because your body adapts, especially the first week(s) can be rather odd. This is commonly the first step, because it makes everything easier, or at least possible.

They may have an introductory course which covers the basics of what it is to live with ADHD, and if you have an SO that's not exactly like you, it's recommended they attend something similar but target at them. We're not always easy to live with, and they might also need someone to went at that knows what's up. My ex wife tried to talk to her friend before I got my diagnosis, and she only felt even more alone.

After figuring out medication, or in parallel you should see a some kind of therapist that is specialized in attention deficit disorder, because a) unless you are very young, you have issues that your superhuman avoidance algorithms has made you avoid, you might start noticing them, and they need to be dealt with b) It's nice to have someone that doesn't lie to you, can help you understand your fellow humans. Autistic traits are extremely common if you are anywhere near tech and have ADHD, and if not, it is easier for some to keep sane and also keep your friends as friends if you can tell someone who is not your friend why everything sucks, and why people are stupid. YMMV c) You'll probably not notice your own progress at first, but a decent therapist will, and you get valuable feedback to get the ball rolling. d) Don't stop going to the therapist to early if you can avoid it, you'll probably improve rather quickly, but if it's not habit yet, and if you're not very lucky on the medical side, you might need someone to keep you heading in the right direction.

Most people have some side effects during the time the medicine is active during the day, but usually quite minor.

Results vary immensely, but even for me which in many ways have not had fantastic results, mostly because I was so terribly burnt out that it alone has taken years to recover from, it still was so worth it every step of the way.

My life is still rather messy, but I feel like it's my own life now, I'm not only drifting along. I still plan terribly, but I am in time more often than not, that didn't use to be the case.

It's actually really hard to understand the results beforehand. It's as if trying to understand how blue smells. I wouldn't have understood my own descriptions, because my brain

Re: Procrastination is driven by our desire to avoid difficult emotions, says expert

#265
post #72
post #31

My solution is similar (breaking down the problem), the cause is - at least partially - different. If I am procrastinating in software development or research it is (1) for complexity reasons, (2) for foreseeable vast grunt work I have already done and solved in the past. Example (1): I have to choose between at least two fundamental different ways to get ahead in writing software. I know that implications come late,…

I'm familiar with your (1) and I think it fits extremely well with the negative emotion explanation. At least for me, making a difficult decision that might have far-reaching consequences can be very uncomfortable if I don't have all the information. And it can be very easy to procrastinate because I tell myself that more information might be available in the future (even when that is clearly not true). So, it's not…

My brain latches onto the few examples where it did pay off, though. "Imagine if I would've started earlier - all that work I did would've been completely wasted."

In reality, that work probably wouldn't have been completely wasted, and even then, I certainly wouldn't be any further behind on the project if I'd done it instead of slacking off.

Re: Procrastination is driven by our desire to avoid difficult emotions, says expert

#266
post #73

Words of warning from a not so young (36) chronic procrastinator with a rather messed up life: Take it seriously. I'm not talking about reading HN in your 7th work hour when doing stupid Excel sheets. I'm talking about messing up years and years of your life. I believe it's a symptom of some deeper issues and it won't go away from alone. Lack of sleep, stress, work overload, information overload amplify the effects b…

Pomodoro is magic and should be worshipped. It's the only thing that seems to consistently work for me. When I was so emotionally overwhelmed I couldn't focus and it took me half a day to begin working, I would switch to doing pomodoros and rewarding myself for achieving a certain amount any given day. I tried punishing myself through not achieving too (via Beeminder), but that ended up worsening my emotional negativ…

+1 for journals. At some point I used to run three: personal, work and one for my masters.

I don't know why, but they work way better when hand-written

Re: Procrastination is driven by our desire to avoid difficult emotions, says expert

#267

I always read here and there people commenting about certain tips not working well on their own procrastination issues. My experience is no different. Some months ago I wrote about how procrastination had harmed my life. I was going through a lot. Thankfully, things have hugely improved since then. Step by step, I'm getting my life together. Way before my ex-wife left me, I had been reading some books on the subject.…

"The extreme pressure I was putting over myself. The insanely huge goals I had established. My inclination to define my own value as a person based solely on my intellectual accomplishments. Everything mixed together. Overwhelming." Thank you for writing, this really jives with my experience. I would read HN or various articles or do "fun" work to get dopamine hits, but the reality my psychotherapist revealed was tha…

Thanks for sharing this. I'm glad that you looked for a therapy. We are all going through tough times regarding jobs and economy, but I'm pretty sure you'll be OK. Stay safe and don't let the present times let you down, things are going to be normal again soon.

Re: Procrastination is driven by our desire to avoid difficult emotions, says expert

#268

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tagging this on: If one is a chronic procrastinator and also find the idea that people doesn't think about something exactly all the time to be a very strange thought, it might be worth doing at least an initial evaluation for ADD. ADD/ADHD-PI is kind of a terrible name, but procrastination and a mind that never rests is a combination that while not unique, is quite uncommon outside "ADD type" brains/people. It's not…

> find the idea that people doesn't think about something exactly all the time to be a very strange thought I'm not sure I understand; how could one not be thinking about things constantly? If I try to just sit there and think about nothing, it doesn't work. The only time when the thinking has stopped for me is while under anesthesia.

throwaway713, you can definitely not think about things. I'm no doctor or mental health expert so I'm not sure if thinking all the time is bad... But it _sounds_ bad to me.

For me I day dream all the time. I don't think about anything when I play guitar. I don't think about anything when I do the dishes. I don't think about anything when I'm laying in a hammock looking at the sky. I don't really think when I'm exercising outside of "this is hard!".

Even when I'm dating someone she'll ask "What are you thinking about?" and more often then not the response is "literally nothing."

So yeah, it's definitely possible to not think about things. Maybe it's worth the cash on a therapy session just to double check? https://www.betterhelp.com/ Is a good source.

To me this sounds like the equivalent of a tooth ache for your mental health, better to get it checked now then wait.

Re: Procrastination is driven by our desire to avoid difficult emotions, says expert

#269
post #86
post #73

Words of warning from a not so young (36) chronic procrastinator with a rather messed up life: Take it seriously. I'm not talking about reading HN in your 7th work hour when doing stupid Excel sheets. I'm talking about messing up years and years of your life. I believe it's a symptom of some deeper issues and it won't go away from alone. Lack of sleep, stress, work overload, information overload amplify the effects b…

Yeah, agreed. For me avoidance of tasks was just the visible problem; the root was avoidance of feelings . I don't really struggle with procrastination much any more, but it took all sorts of work that would have seemed apparently unrelated to me. E.g., a regular sleep schedule is really helpful, and that required an automated lighting system that helps me keep in sync with the sun. Regular cardio helps keep my basel…

> E.g., a regular sleep schedule is really helpful, and that required an automated lighting system that helps me keep in sync with the sun.

Wouldn't letting the curtains open achieve the same thing?

Re: Procrastination is driven by our desire to avoid difficult emotions, says expert

#270

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I hope you don't suffer through all of these simultaneously. I'm at the stage of repeatedly checking the gas stove after each use and whenever I enter or leave the kitchen, plus closing the water faucet in the bathroom repeatedly until it clicks the right way several times in a row (there's a pattern to it). And triple-checking if I closed the apartment (sometimes with additional gas stove check) when I'm leaving any…

The nice thing about OCD is that it doesn't have to make any sense, and you get to know and understand that it doesn't make any sense! That paragraph generally sums up my day, but you do learn coping strategies. I'm not sure if OCD generally gets worse, but mine definitely has gotten worse over the years. Therapy and counseling have helped in the last few years. I can at least leave the house now. I'm told there are…

one thing that works wonderfully for me is to replace the ritual with an easier one, for example,

wear a circle ring around your ankle, or draw a circle on your underwear, so you are all the time inside a circle , and all the time protected inside a circle, so when you enter a square, you dont need to perform any ritual, because you are already protected by your circle and this neutralizes all the squares

sounds funny and irrational but our rituals arent rational too , lol

i used to perform rituals all day, sometimes, when crossing a street, the traffic light opened for the cars when i was still performing my ritual, and i continue performing in the middle of the road, and the cars came and i had to run to the other side and the cars drivers thinking i was crazy

i had wounds in my hands because knocking the wood for hours nonstop

i used to miss the subway ride because i had to wait for someone dressing in pink to get in the subway before me

i didnt try any medication because i didnt want to mess my brain with brain affecting medicines

one day i decided couldnt live like this, and i tied a string with my protection color around my wrist and i said to myself the string protects me and i didnt need any other ritual anymore, then i was free of 99% of the rituals

its so good to feel free

in the beggining, when i feel the urge of performing some ritual, because of the habit, I remembered myself that I dont need and remember im already protected

after some time you dont remember the other rituals and your brain gets the habit of being free

you can try to find some ritual to perform just once a day after wake up, that is valid for the whole day, so you dont need any other ritual along the day, then you are free the whole day

this helped me and changed my life , hope can help you too

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