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GitHub is working on renaming default branch from “master”

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Re: GitHub is working on renaming default branch from “master”

#261

Post by paulnechifor »

sourdoughness wrote: post #255
umvi wrote: post #216

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It just seems like an ultimately meaningless gesture. Is erasing the word "master" from the English language going to actually help anyone? What's next - is the lock company Master Lock going to have to change their company name?

After watching a lot of Lock Picking Lawyer episodes, I’d propose the word they need to change is “Lock”.

Same, but also Bosnian Bill. Here's him opening a master lock with a plastic sheet as a pick: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ayQIm3Lo6ZM or a zip tie https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BIq9khF-axs&list=PLTSWkYxuSl... (he has an entire list of these ridiculously easy picks).

Re: GitHub is working on renaming default branch from “master”

#262

Post by racl101 »

takinola wrote: post #123

As a black person, speaking just for myself, I really do not get the issue around semantics like this. The word "Master" is not synonymous with any race and so does not make me (or anyone I know) uncomfortable. The concept of masters (and slaves) exist and are useful metaphors for naming similar phenomenon. I would much rather focus on issues that make people truly less comfortable in technology, like hiring or spons…

Agreed. I think if anything this a the Streisand effect too, in that, most people didn't think slavery when they read the word 'master' in the context of branches.

Now this is all people will think about and if they change the word to 'main' it will get memed and ridiculed and mocked to oblivion because of the huge inconvenience it will cause.

It will have so many unintended consequences.

It solves nothing honestly.

Re: GitHub is working on renaming default branch from “master”

#263

Post by zucker42 »

kickopotomus wrote: post #102
zucker42 wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, there are legitimately people who believe the master-slave terminology trivializes American slavery. They are mostly in the U.S. and probably a minority of programmers but they exist. But in this case, there's not even a slave branch.

> Yes, there are legitimately people who believe the master-slave terminology trivializes American slavery. I suppose this is something I don't understand. How do terms become trivial when used in separate contexts? They are simply descriptive terms. Furthermore, from an etymological standpoint, the term "master" has been used to signify preeminence since the 13th century. E.g. master's degree, master-key, master cop…

I agree with you in this case, since master is used by itself, similarly to master key.

But I'll try to provide some insight into the argument specifically regarding master and slave used together.

> How do terms become trivial when used in separate contexts? They are simply descriptive terms.

This is where I think you are incorrect. Master and slave are not simply descriptive terms. Pretty obviously, they are an analogy, just like, for example, male and female plugs. The point of analogies is that they use existing relationships to describe new relationships, so that understanding the new relationships is easier.

So I think the issue for some people is that in master/slave architectures, the master node neither brutally beats the slave nodes nor justifies its power through a theory of racial superiority. Maybe a more accurate analogy would be that one node is the leader and the others are the followers. Maybe we should only use the master/slave in situations which are actually comparable to the historic instances of chattel slavery. Plus, an updated analogy can better serve the purpose of describing relationships. In the context of databases, for example, primary/replica or master/replica are IMO both much better analogies than master/slave.

Sure you can argue they are simply descriptive terms. But if that's the case, why did engineers choose existing terms in the first place?

Re: GitHub is working on renaming default branch from “master”

#265

Post by waheoo »

sourdoughness wrote: post #258
_never_k wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The terminology of master/slave architecture is a direct reference to the working relationships between people on an antebellum plantation. Names should help you understand what things do, and those names do. We also have node that elect leaders, nodes that get fenced, nodes with parents and children, etc... The terminology of our software architecture, and of our software in general, mirrors that of the real world r…

Master in git doesn’t (as far as I understand) refer to master/slave architecture though. It’s a “master” as in as in the version from which copies are derived.

Your understanding is correct.

https://twitter.com/xpasky/status/1272280760280637441

Re: GitHub is working on renaming default branch from “master”

#266

Post by waheoo »

_never_k wrote: post #138
crucialfelix wrote: post #79

I support changing master - slave. But the use of master here is from 5 b: an original from which copies can be made especially : a master recording (such as a magnetic tape) There is no implied slave. It's derived from masterpiece. Something that a master craftsman has created. Master has many definitions and usages. Master of a slave is only one minor usage. https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/master

Github inherited it from git, which inherited it from bitkeeper, the DVCS that Linux originally used and the one that inspired git. Bitkeeper used a master/slave architecture that git dropped. https://github.com/bitkeeper-scm/bitkeeper/blob/master/doc/H...

The dev that set git to using master says otherwise..

https://twitter.com/xpasky/status/1272280760280637441

Re: GitHub is working on renaming default branch from “master”

#267

Post by anton000 »

Why not this first?

Microsoft's shareholders, during last Dec's meeting, rejected Arjuna Capital's proposal that a report be compiled on the gender pay gap across Microsoft, specifically to include "the percentage global median pay gap between male and female employees across race and ethnicity, including base, bonus and equity compensation."

https://www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/2019-12-04-microsoft-...

Re: GitHub is working on renaming default branch from “master”

#268

Post by azinman2 »

waon wrote: post #105
zucker42 wrote: post #14

I'm a strong supporter of social justice. I don't really object to people putting in work to change language like that if they think it's important. Especially when the work required is minimal. That said, this is slightly ridiculous. Have customers seriously complained about the term "master"? And my impression was that the usage was more similar to "master copy" than "master of the plantation". Honestly, it's frust…

I feel the same way, and it’s depressing that people have to risk their reputation over this. If this was about people waving confederate flags or holding Nazi banners, we should do our best to keep those people out because these are symbols of ill intent used to send a clear message of hate towards minorities. But I have never seen people use the noun “master” as a symbol to spread hate. Moreover, I don’t think many…

"Moreover, I don’t think many people have even thought of slavery when referring to “master” in CS context before it was brought up in this manner."

That's probably true, and it's probably people who didn't have grandparents that were slaves. It's closer in mind to some more than others. And if we want to have CS be more open to the black community, then being sensitive to how words can turn people off is important.

Re: GitHub is working on renaming default branch from “master”

#269

Post by azinman2 »

sniperliu wrote: post #187

It's a self censoring in western. It's anti-intellect. It happened and is happening in China. The result is a small group shuts up everyone. They could tag everything they don't like and stop using it, e.g. winnie. Please don't let it happen.

It's being sensitive to how words can undermine entire classes of people. Growing up kids used to say "that's so gay" all the time in school. Did they literally mean a shoe was homosexual? No, but they're using a sexuality in a bad or derogatory sense. And that sucks and is wrong, and being gay, it was offensive and destructive to hear. Luckily people eventually shifted away from it with some awareness.

This isn't the same thing as a government censoring opposition or 'insults' to the dear leader.

Re: GitHub is working on renaming default branch from “master”

#270

Post by stevefan1999 »

aespinoza wrote: post #46
zucker42 wrote: post #14

I'm a strong supporter of social justice. I don't really object to people putting in work to change language like that if they think it's important. Especially when the work required is minimal. That said, this is slightly ridiculous. Have customers seriously complained about the term "master"? And my impression was that the usage was more similar to "master copy" than "master of the plantation". Honestly, it's frust…

I am right there with you. The whole idea of "master" is not really based on the idea of slavery focused master. Master represents the final version of a component or software which ends up in production. It is the same meaning as an audio master ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mastering_(audio) ) If the word master is considered evil, then what would happen to a Master Degree ? or Dojo Master ? Words have different…

joking what about master of puppets?
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