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Do I need to go to university?

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Re: Do I need to go to university?

#261

Post by screye »

Miraste wrote: post #231
screye wrote: post #226

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, University in India also costs like $10k for the whole thing. Soo... the value proposition is quite different. This applies only in the case of the US, because university implies a $100k student loan.

University may cost 10% of US prices, but median income is even lower than 10% US.

You are correct about the numbers in absolute, but this is one of those cases where the stats are lying.

Once you go to university, it is relatively easy to get a job making around 2.5-4 lakh a year. The total cost of university stays under 4 lakhs for most people, which is an acceptable percentage of projected annual wage. It is also a lot easier to live under your means in India, where a single person can easily live under 1.5 lakhs/year.

On the other hand, a university degree in the wrong major in the US can mean a $30k gig at Starbucks, with saving being nearly impossible and student debt worth $200k.

Re: Do I need to go to university?

#262

Post by Jugglerofworlds »

jason0597 wrote: post #199
analog31 wrote: post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was going to make the snap judgment that HN happens to be popular among computer programmers, an occupation that is fairly unique in terms of providing lucrative indoor work without strictly needing college training. Many of the programmers of my generation (graduated high school in 1982) have little or no formal training in programming. I don't know anybody who learned math or physics outside of a college classroo…

>I don't know anybody who learned math or physics outside of a college classroom. I think the vast majority has technically learned maths and physics outside the college classroom. The teaching quality I'm getting at my university isn't the greatest (bar a few exceptions), and I find myself regularly going to Khan Academy or 3blue1brown to understand a concept better. This is learning outside the classroom! In a lot…

I don't think Khan Academy or 3brown1blue are a replacement for upper level math and physics courses. Khan seems to stop at calculus/statistics and not dive into any of the proof based math. I'm not sure on 3brown1blue since I haven't watched very much of him.

Re: Do I need to go to university?

#263

Post by throwaway391003 »

empath75 wrote: post #107
laingc wrote: post #37

The anti-university sentiment on HN is absolutely alien to me. Not only did I get a lot out of my university education, but it was a totally transformative experience for me. It also enables me to do my job, and I’ve never seen anyone without a good education do it well. Yes, I get that you can be a react developer without a university qualification. This may come as news to some, but most fields bear no resemblance…

A lot of people’s first experiences living outside of their parents’ homes is a transformative learning experience, college or not.

Exactly.

Re: Do I need to go to university?

#264

Post by throwaway391003 »

I did a coding bootcamp in Austin TX at the age of 18, instead of going to college, and got a job right after at a startup making $40k USD/year, which became $50k USD/year in a few months after getting a raise, and then after working there for a year I switched jobs to a top tech company many of you know, and by 21 I was making $75k USD/year

I got a lot of socializing at both companies, got to hang out with guys my own age and guys older than me, got to have some fun (maybe not as much as my peers in university), got to grow up, etc.

I think university back in the day used to mean a lot more, and I would have enjoyed it, but now it's so watered down cause everyone goes, and political / cultural movements have made the university programs require much more effort and much less thought

Just my 2 cents

Edit: also, to add to this, at the same time I also learned a lot of stuff completely outside of the domain of software through books on my own. philosophy books, history books, sociology books, etc. etc. I really liked that I was able to carefully select the authors and books and topics to the ones that grabbed my eye.

edit 2: oh ya! i also got a lot of fun socializing at the bootcamp too.

Re: Do I need to go to university?

#265

Post by JoeAltmaier »

TheOtherHobbes wrote: post #251
toomanybeersies wrote: post #182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I hate the attitude that tradespeople should get paid less than white collar professionals, it takes the same to finish an apprenticeship as a bachelors degree, it's skilled work just as much as computer programming or accounting or law (incidentally the only time I needed a lawyer I would've been better off representing myself, he was literally worse than useless). I pay my barber $35 for a 20 minute haircut, he cer…

Pay is defined by political and economic leverage, not by intelligence or by actual ability. Tradespeople aren't paid seven figures a year because they have very little political and economic leverage. Top-rank CEOs, and people working in corporate law and finance are, because they tend to accumulate both - although often from a place where they start with plenty. You can argue that this is neither fair nor justified…

The market determines price at that level, not some conspiracy. Agreed, nothing to do with fair. But something to do with, the decline in trade schools in America which limits supply.

Re: Do I need to go to university?

#266

Post by JoeAltmaier »

Aaronstotle wrote: post #221
JoeAltmaier wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My six siblings and I had farmer parents with a high school education. We all went to (and finished) college. Now we have 2 fortune-500 VPs, a research nursing administrator, an IT professional, and 2 self-employed business owners doing very well. So it can help to go to college. Just saying. Oh. And the next generation - 100% college educated. Several PhD's. All well employed. None working on the farm. So for some s…

That's funny, I'm an IT professional now and I'd like to one day own a farm.

And I do! No animals; just crops and an orchard and 7 gardens. Sometimes horses graze; sometimes we stable overflow from the neighbor.

And I work remotely. Have, for 20 years.

Re: Do I need to go to university?

#267

Post by JoeAltmaier »

zenlot wrote: post #215
JoeAltmaier wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My six siblings and I had farmer parents with a high school education. We all went to (and finished) college. Now we have 2 fortune-500 VPs, a research nursing administrator, an IT professional, and 2 self-employed business owners doing very well. So it can help to go to college. Just saying. Oh. And the next generation - 100% college educated. Several PhD's. All well employed. None working on the farm. So for some s…

> None working on the farm. You seem to be proud, but sound derogatory towards those who actually work on a farm and are proud of it.

Success in America isn't "becomes a farm laborer". I think that's well-understood.

I actually live on my farm, have for 25 years. With Silicon Valley money from successful startup buyouts.

Btw "You …" kind of posts are sort of unnecessary. I know what I am; no need to tell me. Maybe just add your own thoughts, its less argumentative and we learn something.

Re: Do I need to go to university?

#269

Post by dekhn »

dpau wrote: post #219
dekhn wrote: post #213

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I got in an argument with a philosophy professor. He put a stick in water and said 'look... the stick is broken'. I said "no, the stick is not broken. it appears broken because the index of refraction is different in water than air, which causes light to bed". he didn't like that very much. It's still not clear to me what point he was trying to make (that human senses are limited?)

you were of course correct, but your professor was simply illustrating a point- of whether we can trust our senses, of how we truly "know" something. philosophy often brings up "commonsensical" questions such as these. he probably didn't reply to you because he was bored from hearing the same smart alecky response every year :)

If that was his point, there are far better ways to argue for it (specifically, Descartes' great deceiver). There was nothiing smart alecky about my response- just touching the stick, or pulling the stick back out, would verify that it was not broken.

Re: Do I need to go to university?

#270

Post by [deleted] »

da39a3ee wrote: post #241
NikolaNovak wrote: post #238

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's that last sentence that covinces me that university is obsolete or at best misrepresented as an educational experience. Getting 100 grand into debt to have fun and have sex? Get wasted? And jf I appear to be cherrypicking the second half of your post, it's because thr first half is cherry picking itself - I'll venture that fields where you Do need university stamp of approval such as medicine and law are becomin…

> Getting 100 grand into debt to have fun and have sex? Get wasted? Fair enough. I spoke from a European perspective where it is in many places not at all that sort of financial consideration. > But north American universities (and I'm an alumni of a good one) If that were so then would you not be an alumnus or an alumna? Sorry.

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