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Swift 5.3 Will Be Supported on Windows and Additional Linux Distributions

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Re: Swift 5.3 Will Be Supported on Windows and Additional Linux Distributions

#261
post #235

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Whether it is actually good is subjective though. There are tons of existing cross-platform UI frameworks (Qt, wx, libui, JavaFX, TornadoFX, ...). The comment above says "Everybody would jump to Swift [for new projects] if it meant a cross-platform GUI framework." And yet people are still wondering why Electron ends up being the technology of choice for so many desktop apps.

I think people would switch if it had Apple money behind it. Qt is pretty good but QtQuick can be fairly barren in some areas i.e. if you want a embedded spreadsheet you're out of luck unless you make your own.

> Qt is pretty good but QtQuick can be fairly barren in some areas i.e. if you want a embedded spreadsheet you're out of luck unless you make your own.

Hey, have you checked out https://github.com/ec1oud/spreadsheet.qml?

Re: Swift 5.3 Will Be Supported on Windows and Additional Linux Distributions

#262

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Could you argue why?

A lot more emphasis on functional programming & nicer syntax around it, preference of value types over reference types and immutability by default/opt in mutability, nicer parsing with Codable, nice pattern matching and destructuring syntax, native binaries by default, more flexible memory management.

Modern C# has both destructuring and pattern matching in switchs. The memory model of swift seems obscolete, reference counting does not catch reference cycles and swift isn't faster than C#

C# isn't really missing features vs swift but it might have a less modern syntax

Re: Swift 5.3 Will Be Supported on Windows and Additional Linux Distributions

#263

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The second set of digits represents major releases. The third set represents point releases. It's called being facetious . Regardless, Xcode definitely does not use the 2nd digit for major releases[1], which does require 10.15. > Windows Vista… Completely irrelevant. > Also, if your machine supports 10.14, it supports 10.15. The last MacBook Pro that dropped support for anything more recent came out in 2011. Yeah,…

> It's called being facetious Then stop being facetious. It wasn't clear you were being facetious, anyway. > Completely irrelevant No, it isn't, not to the point I was making. You also don't get to decide what's relevant to a point someone else is making. The point is that Vista's version number is 6.0, 7's was 6.1, 8's was 6.2, and 8.1's was 6.3. All seemingly minor version number bumps, all major releases. > Yeah,…

Personally, I try to read in a charitable way by assuming that the person writing isn't being robotic - we may (most of us here) be techies but we're still human. I enjoy the wit of others, especially served wry.

Now, to versioning. There is no one standard for versioning. Again, we're mainly techies here, we know this (I hope). I like semver[1] (though I'm having doubts[2]), some prefer calver[3], others use versions as branding[4] (which extends beyond computing). Hence, the choice of version scheme chosen by another organisation or project has no relevance to any other project, their being in the same category or field or competing or whatever simply have no more relevance to this subject than Ford Escort MkII moving to MkIII.

If you're into recursion you might also try applying you "who gets to choose the relevance" logic beyond your own comments, it'll be enlightening.

Finally, if you're going to suggest that all X are capable of something but ignore exceptions to that to me smacks of dogmatism, and more importantly, of no help whatsoever to the person you're responding to.

If you have something helpful or insightful for me then please respond with that, else you can comment further up the thread with your thoughts about versioning and how a hardware company that has been fined for planned obsolescence via software updates[5] isn't angling for more purchases when it stops its dev environment being backwards compatible so it can support a half finished UI library.

[1] https://semver.org/

[2] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oyLBGkS5ICk A fascinating talk by Rich Hickey where he questions semver and the way we handle change as developers.

[3] https://calver.org/

[4] https://hbr.org/2011/05/the-best-way-to-name-your-product-20 It's interesting, they did lab tests:

> In laboratory and field studies involving hundreds of subjects, we found that when consumers see a brand-name continuation, they expect improvements to existing features. When they see a brand-name change, they expect fundamentally new features, and they perceive the product as riskier (likelier to fail or more prone to compatibility problems with previous products) but potentially more rewarding (higher in quality, more satisfying to use).

If OS X to macOS isn't a brand name change then what's the point (pun intended) of the 10?

[5] https://www.itworld.com/article/3316958/apple-and-samsung-fi... I got a free battery out of this one, perhaps I shouldn't complain? (wry humour alert;)

Edit: I managed to muck up the numbering. Is Markdown capable of off-by-one errors? I can make it happen.

Re: Swift 5.3 Will Be Supported on Windows and Additional Linux Distributions

#264
Huh, might finally get around to Apple garbage. Closing your users to one internal system with internal hardware works for speed and maintenance issues([with users] look at early Windows with it's struggles and blue screens despite it's prevalent use across various hardware systems. But it doesn't work with devs. Dude if I can't code your stuff or for your platform on my shitty little linux, I have zero interest in working on your platform or utilizing your tech stack.

Re: Swift 5.3 Will Be Supported on Windows and Additional Linux Distributions

#265
post #186

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Creating a good cross-platform GUI framework is probably harder than creating a good cross-platform language.

Creating a good cross-platform GUI framework is probably harder than creating a good cross-platform language. Way way way way way harder, I'd think. It's basically never been done in the modern era. All the successful ones from the past look (and work) like garbage on a modern desktop computer (I use gnucash for my dad's business, ha ha). SwiftUI is an interesting re-think, though, and as a Windows 10 user, I can tel…

Ohhhhh, this would be super cool. One intuitive UI design system, my body is so ready.

Re: Swift 5.3 Will Be Supported on Windows and Additional Linux Distributions

#266

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Electron ends up being the technology of choice for so many desktop apps. probably because of the large number of JS only developers.

JavaScript is a language that's neither abstracted from the basic programming concepts nor its syntax is alien. Most of the people who picked it up can learn many other mainstream programming languages in a week, if not a weekend. Add 1-2 more weeks and they're writing GUI code. Yet, they don't. JavaScript is popular for pragmatic reasons (a.k.a. "it delivers results"), so is PHP. They aren't the best languages, but…

I will never ever ever work with PHP again. It's dead.

Re: Swift 5.3 Will Be Supported on Windows and Additional Linux Distributions

#267
post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It isn't just that. The scrolling in macOS is 2D (you can scroll a small rectangle inside a large one in any direction) and has position, velocity, acceleration, and a bounce effect on the boundaries of the content area. Additionally, you can pinch to zoom (in and out) and the zooming is smooth and continuous centred on the cursor location. There are also various 3-finger swipe gestures, and force touch lets you clic…

Two-axis scrolling isn't unique to macOS. The way that scrolling has traditionally been implemented on Linux (as mouse buttons 4 and 5) makes it difficult to implement any kind of continuous scrolling, but once you have one axis working, a second one isn't much harder. The velocity and bounce effects on scrolling are implemented at the application layer. They don't depend on any unique features of the trackpad hardwa…

It’s used for drawing and illustration. Art is not a gimmick,

ArtIsts are one of apples most important cohorts. People here so condescending but why pretend like people don’t care about art or gaming?

Folks care far more about using their computer to make art than hating on Swift or Electron

Re: Swift 5.3 Will Be Supported on Windows and Additional Linux Distributions

#268
post #146

But why? Sure, there are people who want to tinker with it for fun, but outside of that what is the point in having Swift on Linux and Windows? You can't use it to build mac or iOS apps on Linux because the important libraries aren't there. There is no cross platform UI and Apple isn't likely to port and support theirs from macOS. If you are into servers then you have plenty of better languages options with establish…

I use it for all kinds of things, like computer graphics and various tools in my CLI-driven workflows. I find it nice to work with, because it has a lot of the nice features Rust does, like affine types, 1st class optional handling, decent single-threaded safety guarantees, and it has a very nice, ergonomic interface. Generally the performance characteristics are not what you would get with Rust, but I am generally m…

I was not aware that swift had affine types. Never been a big fan of Swift, I loved objective-c, so there is some built in bias there.

Re: Swift 5.3 Will Be Supported on Windows and Additional Linux Distributions

#269
post #225
post #186

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Creating a good cross-platform GUI framework is probably harder than creating a good cross-platform language. Way way way way way harder, I'd think. It's basically never been done in the modern era. All the successful ones from the past look (and work) like garbage on a modern desktop computer (I use gnucash for my dad's business, ha ha). SwiftUI is an interesting re-think, though, and as a Windows 10 user, I can tel…

I’m interested in why you’d pick green potato’s

It's because they are poisonous, and also look roughly like a troll's testicles.

Re: Swift 5.3 Will Be Supported on Windows and Additional Linux Distributions

#270
post #241
post #214

Earlier quoted context omitted.

OCaml fits the bill.

OCaml definitely has some weirdness that come from its age though (char==byte thing for example.)

Yeah there are some quirks, but that wasn't part of OP's request.
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