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Rules of thumb for a 1x developer

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Re: Rules of thumb for a 1x developer

#261

Post by eloff »

noad wrote: post #21

I used to get called a 10x developer, I was also called a rockstar and a ninja and a 100x dev and every other compliment that was hip. Then I hit 30. That type of talk stopped. Then I hit 40. Now I will not be considered for any entry level, mid level, or senior level software dev job anywhere in the United States, despite being very desperate and willing to relocate for anything. Doesn't matter. Too old. I'm suppose…

I think there is ageism in the industry, but you must have other problems to get that result. Either you're not applying to enough places, or your resume needs work, or something else. Because there are a lot of successful 40, 50, even 60 year old developers.

I can't say much personally, other than at 36 my career is still on an upward trajectory. I've worked 50-60 hours a week my whole career though, not for the company usually, but putting in time on side projects, learning new skills. I think part of the problem is once you have a family, priorities change and you don't have that kind of time to stay on top of the game anymore. That doesn't mean you can't compete, you have other advantages on the youngsters - you just need to play to your advantages.

Re: Rules of thumb for a 1x developer

#263

Post by pc86 »

jimbokun wrote: post #135
pc86 wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not the GP but I can hazard a guess: > What did you work on during those years? Line-of-business apps. VB.NET maybe? Or Java/J2EE type stuff. Probably jobs involving mainframes as core legacy systems? Things where "design" was more a function of where your WYSIWYG editor placed controls than conscious decisions. > Did you keep up with the industry? Enough to read HN, but not enough to keep learning new technologies a…

> Not the GP but I can hazard a guess: Please don't, you have no relevant information so your speculation isn't helpful.

"I'm over 40 and now nobody wants to hire me because they're age-ist bigots!!1" is a common refrain that very rarely holds up under any form of scrutiny.

And let's not ignore the fact that if you removed speculative comments with no relevant information from HN we'd lose about 2/3 of the userbase.

Re: Rules of thumb for a 1x developer

#264

Post by ThrowawayR2 »

cyrialize wrote: post #103

I've been a developer for about 3 years now. This is probably my own fault, but I feel pressured to be constantly doing something towards programming. I feel like I should either be reading a book or starting a project. I have 10+ programming books where I just finished reading one of them and I have way more unfinished projects than I could count. It's reassuring to see the push-back against the 10x developer idea,…

> "It's reassuring to see the push-back against the 10x developer idea, I'm starting to feel less guilty now when I spend my free time NOT on programming."

10x developers don't spend their free time programming, at least in my observation. They don't need to.

> "I want to ask though - the author works at Amazon and considers himself a 1x developer. "

A 1x developer would be an average (ok, fine, median) developer, no? About half are better and about half are worse. Compared to the bottom half of the statistical distribution, a 1x developer would by definition perform better.

Re: Rules of thumb for a 1x developer

#265

Post by thoraway1010 »

ptero wrote: post #64
noad wrote: post #21

I used to get called a 10x developer, I was also called a rockstar and a ninja and a 100x dev and every other compliment that was hip. Then I hit 30. That type of talk stopped. Then I hit 40. Now I will not be considered for any entry level, mid level, or senior level software dev job anywhere in the United States, despite being very desperate and willing to relocate for anything. Doesn't matter. Too old. I'm suppose…

In my experience being under 40 is not a prerequisite for being hired in software. A suggestion: two of the biggest turnoffs that I personally see and would work hard to avoid (not saying you have either of those): 1. Sounding desperate. Do not cast a very wide net at one company -- you can apply to mid level and principal level positions at different companies, but do not blanket all job postings at one company. Cho…

Some of the re-platform / train up roles which benefit from lots of experience go to consultants (a great place to have a lot of experience and talk to the C-suite, the big consulting firms have lots of older solutions architects doing $10M+ deals - I've been stuck using those solutions in past!).

You can actually take advantage of your age / experience and hire someone out of college for cheap to do some of the day to day and you deliver the consulting "solution" - can be very lucrative. You may be more likely to get the deal talking to the top as a 40 year old then as a 21 year old.

Re: Rules of thumb for a 1x developer

#266

Post by osrec »

noad wrote: post #21

I used to get called a 10x developer, I was also called a rockstar and a ninja and a 100x dev and every other compliment that was hip. Then I hit 30. That type of talk stopped. Then I hit 40. Now I will not be considered for any entry level, mid level, or senior level software dev job anywhere in the United States, despite being very desperate and willing to relocate for anything. Doesn't matter. Too old. I'm suppose…

Get a job as an IT contractor in banking? Most of them seem to be above 40 in my experience and the pay isn't terrible... Might have to wait till after the lockdown though.

Re: Rules of thumb for a 1x developer

#267

Post by pc86 »

falcolas wrote: post #136
neogodless wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm 40 and I don't suppose anyone has ever called me a 10x developer or a rockstar or a ninja, though I was recently described as having "a superpower to crush tickets." I have a feeling you have not applied "everywhere" in the United States, but please correct me if I'm wrong. I've never left my home state, and the deluge of recruiter spam on LinkedIn hasn't slowed down yet. And no I'm not an architect or team lead…

> the deluge of recruiter spam on LinkedIn hasn't slowed down yet Recruiters spamming you is not a correlative metric for companies hiring you. SV is worse than other locations, but even the midwest company I work for (I'm also over 40) much prefers to hire people straight out of college. They're cheaper, willing to work longer hours, and easily molded into an image the company wants. EDIT: To provide a small anecdot…

On the flipside, my current company as a rule doesn't hire below 3-5 years of experience. Especially if their degree is in something like IT or MIS/BIS I've found a junior dev working 60-65 hours a week is noticeably less productive, even to managers and non-tech executives, than a senior dev working 35. Even the person with 5 years of industry-relevant experience will be less productive (though not as noticeably) than someone with 20. We're not in a spot in the market where we can afford the drop in productivity from the seniors, and leadership hasn't yet decided to make the investment required to hire enough to overcome that (e.g. hiring "extra" seniors so we have enough slack to train cheaper juniors and mids).

Re: Rules of thumb for a 1x developer

#268

Post by mattlutze »

falcolas wrote: post #136
neogodless wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm 40 and I don't suppose anyone has ever called me a 10x developer or a rockstar or a ninja, though I was recently described as having "a superpower to crush tickets." I have a feeling you have not applied "everywhere" in the United States, but please correct me if I'm wrong. I've never left my home state, and the deluge of recruiter spam on LinkedIn hasn't slowed down yet. And no I'm not an architect or team lead…

> the deluge of recruiter spam on LinkedIn hasn't slowed down yet Recruiters spamming you is not a correlative metric for companies hiring you. SV is worse than other locations, but even the midwest company I work for (I'm also over 40) much prefers to hire people straight out of college. They're cheaper, willing to work longer hours, and easily molded into an image the company wants. EDIT: To provide a small anecdot…

Have you actually tried applying, though? Rules are general, locations can be hypothetical or ideal, remote work is a thing.

(To be sure, I get your point. But I think this anecdote might be a little bit your own barriers to that route as well as recruiters just spamming people that match keywords.)

Re: Rules of thumb for a 1x developer

#270

Post by maps7 »

neogodless wrote: post #54
noad wrote: post #21

I used to get called a 10x developer, I was also called a rockstar and a ninja and a 100x dev and every other compliment that was hip. Then I hit 30. That type of talk stopped. Then I hit 40. Now I will not be considered for any entry level, mid level, or senior level software dev job anywhere in the United States, despite being very desperate and willing to relocate for anything. Doesn't matter. Too old. I'm suppose…

I'm 40 and I don't suppose anyone has ever called me a 10x developer or a rockstar or a ninja, though I was recently described as having "a superpower to crush tickets." I have a feeling you have not applied "everywhere" in the United States, but please correct me if I'm wrong. I've never left my home state, and the deluge of recruiter spam on LinkedIn hasn't slowed down yet. And no I'm not an architect or team lead…

Have you been programming your whole life? Have you ever been tempted to move into architect role?
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