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Apple changes default MacBook charging behavior to improve battery health

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Re: Apple changes default MacBook charging behavior to improve battery health

#261

Post by Polylactic_acid »

philwelch wrote: post #251
Polylactic_acid wrote: post #242

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, thats purely to prevent repair. Its perfectly possible to have a removable battery and to just not boot when one is not inserted. Thats how phones used to work ~2013

I’m not saying one is a requirement for the other, just that you don’t have to worry about the battery-removed state when it doesn’t exist. From the tear downs I’ve seen, it seems like the primary motivation for the non-removable battery is so they can cram it into every spare piece of space.

I guess there are also multiple states of removable. 2012 macbooks had the battery in multiple packs in odd spaces like the new ones but they had a screw in bracket holding them in place which made it trivial to remove and put a new one in. The new ones have it glued down so heavily that the battery replacement process is "Take the screen off, put it on a new bottom case, throw out the old bottom half"

Re: Apple changes default MacBook charging behavior to improve battery health

#262

Post by Polylactic_acid »

closeparen wrote: post #252
Polylactic_acid wrote: post #242

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, thats purely to prevent repair. Its perfectly possible to have a removable battery and to just not boot when one is not inserted. Thats how phones used to work ~2013

A removable battery requires its own protective shell, which costs weight and thickness. When it's not user serviceable, it can just be a bag of acid resting on the main board, piggybacking on the device's own case for the required protection.

The protective shell can be only the bottom side which replaces the bottom of the case. The internal laptop batteries are quite safe to handle if you don't use anything sharp on them. We let people handle phone batteries for ages and they weren't nearly as protected as those old laptop battery tubes.

Re: Apple changes default MacBook charging behavior to improve battery health

#263

Post by Polylactic_acid »

askafriend wrote: post #246
Polylactic_acid wrote: post #186

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It wasn't the right thing. People thew out their phones because they were slow not knowing they could have been fixed cheaply with a new battery.

Apple has offered battery replacements for years before they rolled out that patch. Replacing the battery would have fixed the issue at any time. It's not like they were holding it back.

What they failed to do was show the user a message saying "Your phone has been slowed down due to an old battery, get a battery replacement at an apple store to restore the original speed"

Absolutely no one is going to assume their phone is slow due to an old battery.

Re: Apple changes default MacBook charging behavior to improve battery health

#264

Post by rconti »

tambourine_man wrote: post #17

We desperately need better energy storage tech. It's amazing what we were able to squeeze out of lithium ion, but it's fundamentally a stop-gap.

man, I'm just still so impressed at how much better batteries are now than they were 15 years ago.

Re: Apple changes default MacBook charging behavior to improve battery health

#265

Post by skavi »

rrrrrrrrrrrryan wrote: post #183
askafriend wrote: post #166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That "issue" was way overblown. Apple's change did the right thing. It fixed a ton of older phones which before were rendered unusable since they would experience random shutdowns due to naturally degraded Li-Ion batteries. Every manufacturer should implement the kind of fix Apple did (and I'm sure at this point, they have). They even mentioned the change in the original release notes for the iOS update.

I still think they could've (and should've) been more transparent. Android has been doing it for years, and it's always been toggleable. If Apple didn't want to implement a toggle that's fine, but they could have easily indicated to the user that their device's battery has degraded, that batteries are replaceable, and that performance can be restored by replacing said battery.

Android phones aren’t supported long enough for their OEMs to have to deal with widespread battery degradation.

Re: Apple changes default MacBook charging behavior to improve battery health

#266

Post by sieabahlpark »

yellow_postit wrote: post #236
wrs wrote: post #42

I've noticed that on newer (past few years) MacBook Pros, if their battery runs down too far they refuse to start up, even when plugged into the charger. The battery has to charge for 10-15 minutes with the "dead battery" icon on the screen. It's exactly the same behavior as iPhone/iPad. In past MacBook models, the battery could be dead--or even completely removed--and the charger would power the laptop fine. Anyone…

I run into a (to me) more annoying behavior on a 13” MacBoon Pro - the machine will start and let me login with < 3% displayed and then shut off within a few moments after login, presumably because startup actions pegged the battery and drained it back to a shutoff state. Would much prefer the machine not start until I can login and work.

I don't think it's actually possible to do that. You would have to be able to know 100% of the side effects of every possible configuration of software and attached(USB) peripherals and their potential full future power draw _before_ your machine starts anything.

Re: Apple changes default MacBook charging behavior to improve battery health

#267

Post by unbendable »

cmckn wrote: post #80

Why doesn't the UI report 80% as 100%? It seems like exposing this to the user is more confusing than anything, when the cells could be over provisioned and treated politely by a system controller, without the user being part of the decision. Aren't SSD's over provisioned in this manner? You sell a drive with a terabyte of storage, but actually ship more than a terabyte of chips in the case to accommodate degradation…

I just switched from Linux to Mac for my company notebook.

No offense, but for me it is like the Mac is taking my hand and guiding me threw a mess. However sometimes I know the way better than the Mac but it is not letting me. It actually makes it really hard to „go my way“.

For example the “only trusted developer program“ can be run . I understand why it makes sense for most people but I want an option to decide it mysel who is to be trusted. To be fair I had to google a bit for a terminal command to fix this but either way it leaves a bitter taste. I fear that I may lose this “fix“

Now back to the battery health. Why not allow being transparent? If most of users want the 100% showing then make it default.

I think that’s what boils it down for me. Having no choice with OS X. Now I know some will say that’s how it is for Mac but do you think it is too much to ask for this (really stable) system to support choices?

Re: Apple changes default MacBook charging behavior to improve battery health

#268

Post by wyclif »

gruez wrote: post #151
sambe wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why is it not possible to completely save the battery when on AC? i.e. charge the battery to 100% (or something close) but power the laptop directly via the charger.

>i.e. charge the battery to 100% (or something close) but power the laptop directly via the charger. That's already what's happening. However that's not enough. Leaving the battery full is harmful in and of itself.

Understood. So why hasn't Apple done something about this earlier? IOW, a setting that charges the battery to a maximum of 80% when plugged in?

Re: Apple changes default MacBook charging behavior to improve battery health

#269

Post by m_eiman »

aeyes wrote: post #227
m_eiman wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You should probably check your battery cycle count: https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT201585

Its around 350, the battery is dead from being plugged in at work 10-12 hours every day.

If the full charge is less than 80% of design capacity before 1000 cycles the battery is defective according to Apple.

You should be able to get it replaced for free, imho, but I suppose that depends on local regulations and if you have Apple Care or not.

Re: Apple changes default MacBook charging behavior to improve battery health

#270

Post by Joeri »

satysin wrote: post #101
rubber_duck wrote: post #53

I got a top spec 15 MBP a year ago and I have to say the experience is appalling - 4000$ device that goes full airplane takeoff levels of noise at any serious workload, no ability to control performance (I would gladly throttle the CPU sooner to avoid everyone in the office turning my way when I start an emulator or keep the fans at lower RPM but constantly instead of letting the CPU idle at 60-70 degrees with no fan…

I have almost identical spec laptops from Dell and Apple (XPS 15 and 15" MacBook Pro with same CPU) and on both they ramp up to full fan speed when I do any serious work on them so it isn't limited to Apple laptops. Pretty much all 15" laptops with 45W Intel CPUs turn into jet engines when under load, at least in my experience. Also not to defend Apple but I do find the MacBook Pro cools down and gets quieter quicker…

I have a thinkpad t460p, it has a 45w cpu and stays quiet under load, even after years of use. It is two times as thick as a macbook pro. Newer thinkpads are thinner and louder.

As long as people buy for sleekness first and thermals second this is the outcome you get.

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