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Apple Faceshield

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Re: Apple Faceshield

#262

This is impressive, compared to what traditional health companies like Pharma are doing. The latter seem mostly to update existing products like faster tests or trying to develop vaccines. Whereas it’s the tech companies which are going a bit beyond their traditional business: Apple making face masks, Google and Apple making screening websites (other examples?) All of which could be done by traditional health compani…

Really? Masks don't get us out of this crisis. The billions-fold more complex work of developing effective treatments and vaccines does. What an odd sentiment you've got here.

Thanks all for the input, it helps. I didn’t mean to downplay anyone’s contributions. Just looking at how big companies in tech vs in healthcare are solving this. Of course, smaller players innovate on a different scale. Cheers!

Re: Apple Faceshield

#263

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Everybody stocking a "handful" of PPE isn't a scalable solution to maintain a national supply." No, but there's no harm in it either, and some potential benefit in case it takes a few days for the federal government to organize a response. We all assume the government is going to make sure the food supply is maintained, but everyone is also buying some extra food just in case there's a temporary gap. We don't need t…

The harm right now is that there's not even enough PPE for hospitals, so anyone buying a face shield for themselves, if that were possible, would keep a face shields from going to a health worker who needs it more. A couple months from now, when pressure on the healthcare system is lower and manufacturing capacity is ramped up? Sure, I'm all for it.

That is a completely different situation from what I'm discussing.

I'm not talking about who should get priority for PPE right now. I'm just talking about the idea of the general public having a couple uses worth of PPE just in case. Is now the right time for them to prioritize buying PPE for themselves over hospital workers? No.

Re: Apple Faceshield

#264
post #192

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Face shields are to protect against body fluid splatter during invasive bodily procedures and while closely treating patients with explosive coughing fits. Even doctors in hospitals treating Covid-19 patients don't wear them outside those types of circumstances. There is no need for the general public to wear them. It's not like fitting your car with a seat belt, it's like fitting it with an ejector seat.

So your argument is that the risk to the average American is low from COVID? Why do we have 300,000 cases then? Why are 1000 people dying a day? That's already 0.1% of the population, and most of them in the past week!

Lack of testing and a laggard&lackluster response by authorities. USA will be one of the hardest hit countries in the world. There's still no stay-at-home order. Trump wants to reduce what little is being done after Easter. That's going to make the situation considerably worse.

Re: Apple Faceshield

#265
post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not about the money. PPE like face shields are specifically used during procedures that involve significant bodily fluid, like intubation, which is the process of pulling or pushing a tube down a patient's esophagus. Going to to the grocery store does not require a shield. Secondly disposable medical equipment, when used properly within a healthcare environment, is extremely wasteful. For most consumable items u…

"Everybody stocking a "handful" of PPE isn't a scalable solution to maintain a national supply." No, but there's no harm in it either, and some potential benefit in case it takes a few days for the federal government to organize a response. We all assume the government is going to make sure the food supply is maintained, but everyone is also buying some extra food just in case there's a temporary gap. We don't need t…

"We all assume the government is going to make sure the food supply is maintained"

Do you assume this? I assume that capitalism is keeping the food supply maintained. When that fails, I think we're up the creek.

Re: Apple Faceshield

#266
post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Given that they probably would cost $1 to $5, and take almost no space to store, it wouldn't be a terrible thing for people to have a few if they want them. How many people have a $20 multi-tool that stays in a drawer somewhere? Or some bags of rice "just in case" that end up getting thrown in the trash after being forgotten about in the cabinet for 5 years? It may not be a terrible thing if some percentage of people…

It's not about the money. PPE like face shields are specifically used during procedures that involve significant bodily fluid, like intubation, which is the process of pulling or pushing a tube down a patient's esophagus. Going to to the grocery store does not require a shield. Secondly disposable medical equipment, when used properly within a healthcare environment, is extremely wasteful. For most consumable items u…

All it takes is one accidental sneeze in a grocery store for a face shield to become useful.

Re: Apple Faceshield

#267

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So your argument is that the risk to the average American is low from COVID? Why do we have 300,000 cases then? Why are 1000 people dying a day? That's already 0.1% of the population, and most of them in the past week!

Lack of testing and a laggard&lackluster response by authorities. USA will be one of the hardest hit countries in the world. There's still no stay-at-home order. Trump wants to reduce what little is being done after Easter. That's going to make the situation considerably worse.

All true, but even with stay at home orders, not everyone stays home. Some people are essential workers and have to go to work. Other people go out for exercise, grocery shopping, etc. If those people have protective equipment available it is truly senseless to not wear it given the extreme danger.

Re: Apple Faceshield

#268

The Czech 3D Printer company Prusa has been on it for a while: https://www.prusa3d.com/covid19/ and they have been open-sourcing the design. You can print it on a 3D printer. Based on that design (and others) makers in Germany have started organizing, so that people can either request shields or supply shields. Organized on Slack and into local distribution hubs. We hace started sharing supplies and even got discount…

What is the point of 3d printing something that clearly needs to be mass-produced in great quantities? Maybe it "feels good", but it's just too slow. I'm honestly not sure why people don't just use plastic food wrap as a cheap improvised alternative for face shields. It's lightweight, readily available, disposable, fits over any attire and does not restrict visibility.

Because it turns out you actually can 3D print some of these in mass quantities. Some of the printers we are working with right now are producing on the order of 10s of thousands of parts per day. And now, there are tool shops in the US right now cutting injection molds to make those parts in the hundreds of thousands of parts per day.

Re: Apple Faceshield

#269

The Czech 3D Printer company Prusa has been on it for a while: https://www.prusa3d.com/covid19/ and they have been open-sourcing the design. You can print it on a 3D printer. Based on that design (and others) makers in Germany have started organizing, so that people can either request shields or supply shields. Organized on Slack and into local distribution hubs. We hace started sharing supplies and even got discount…

What is the point of 3d printing something that clearly needs to be mass-produced in great quantities? Maybe it "feels good", but it's just too slow. I'm honestly not sure why people don't just use plastic food wrap as a cheap improvised alternative for face shields. It's lightweight, readily available, disposable, fits over any attire and does not restrict visibility.

1. Having 100 visors is ideal, but I'll still take 1 visor over none.

2. It's really hard to breathe through food wrap and it doesn't cling to hair well.

Re: Apple Faceshield

#270

Pet peeve, that may not just be me idly nitpicking, since this is presumably going to be used in a health care or healthcare-adjacent context where clear communication matters: Sterilization and disinfection are NOT the same thing. The products they suggest using for "sterilization" are disinfecting agents. They will kill most, but not all, microbes. Sterilization implies that you've eliminated everything, and requir…

I don't think they are suggesting using it. They just state it's what they tested the materials to be compatible with "It has been evaluated to be compatible with the following chemicals:" Since this is going to medical professionals they should already know how to sterilize face shields and the like.

Sterilisation is done in an autoclave. Not with any of those things listed. The person you replied to is correct. The page is misleading. Source: I'm a doctor.
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