Honda bucks industry trend by removing touchscreen controls • Hacker News Board

Re: Honda bucks industry trend by removing touchscreen controls

#261

Post by jariel » Tue, Mar 31, 2020, 5:53 PM UTC

hnarn wrote: post #138

Look at the cockpit of any modern airliner and you will see screens, but they are never interactive. There are hardware buttons, dials and lights all over the place. A tactile interface is both more obvious, sturdy and more stable, and therefore safer. The problem that touch interfaces solve, ever since the advent of the first smart phone, is that the interface is now dynamic. You can change it without having to repl…

Great points.

BUT - touch screens can be used if people are trained, the layout is rational, the device is responsive.

There are two underlying things:

1) Tactile. As you spelled out.

2) Changing interfaces. This is the real killer. 100 screens, don't know what's what, supposed to be driving.

These UIs need some thinking but I suggest that the 'knobs and buttons' can possibly be mapped to different functions depending on.

Re: Honda bucks industry trend by removing touchscreen controls

#262

Post by est31 » Tue, Mar 31, 2020, 5:53 PM UTC

CivBase wrote: post #162

hnarn wrote: post #138

Look at the cockpit of any modern airliner and you will see screens, but they are never interactive. There are hardware buttons, dials and lights all over the place. A tactile interface is both more obvious, sturdy and more stable, and therefore safer. The problem that touch interfaces solve, ever since the advent of the first smart phone, is that the interface is now dynamic. You can change it without having to repl…

I work for an avionics manufacturer and I can assure you most of our upcoming comercial systems (and even a healthy portion of government ones) feature touch screen inputs.

In airplanes touchscreens are less of an issue than in cars. In cars you have to have a hand on the wheel 99% of the time, and your gaze on the road. You can't afford interaction with a complicated non-haptic touch screen menu.

In airplanes it's different. Here, outside of takeoff and landing, it's OK to look at a screen for 10 seconds while interacting with it with a hand.

Re: Honda bucks industry trend by removing touchscreen controls

#263

Post by fanatic2pope » Tue, Mar 31, 2020, 5:54 PM UTC

nickpinkston wrote: post #80

Robotbeat wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is taking your hands off the steering wheel much better? Ideally, all controls would be available on the steering wheel without removing either hand. Or, as you say, voice controls.

That's actually the approach Ferrari uses: https://images.app.goo.gl/KdEV4qWFEHouDEq28

No radio! As god herself intended.

Re: Honda bucks industry trend by removing touchscreen controls

#264

Post by _ea1k » Tue, Mar 31, 2020, 5:56 PM UTC

cameronh90 wrote: post #140

caymanjim wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's great if you don't have to use the touch screen in the Tesla while it's driving, but it shouldn't even be possible to use it with the car in motion.

I almost never drive by myself. Things that lock out my girlfriend from using them are very annoying to me. Android Auto does this on some features. It's not like it stops people from just using their phones anyway.

> It's not like it stops people from just using their phones anyway.

I'm finding that more and more people are bringing a software mindset to cars.

If it can be done wrong, we should add a technology fix to stop them!

It hasn't always been this way to anywhere near this degree.

Re: Honda bucks industry trend by removing touchscreen controls

#265

Post by egberts1 » Tue, Mar 31, 2020, 5:56 PM UTC

Best thing that ever happened in the automotive industry. Thank you, Honda. The many accident victims will thank you for the rest of us.

Re: Honda bucks industry trend by removing touchscreen controls

#266

Post by jszymborski » Tue, Mar 31, 2020, 5:56 PM UTC

a great reason to buy a Honda... if this becomes the new normal, I wonder how much this will hurt Tesla since it'd be a pretty drastic change for them.

Re: Honda bucks industry trend by removing touchscreen controls

#267

Post by _ea1k » Tue, Mar 31, 2020, 5:57 PM UTC

mushufasa wrote: post #79

samizdis wrote: post #8

Eminently sensible call by Honda. Knobs, dials and switches work well and do not demand that a driver takes their eyes off the road. I suppose that voice controls would be a reasonably safe tech option, but probably not cost-effective.

hondas have had voice controls for ~20 years. they're in e.g. the 2004 acura tl. simple voice controls are cost effective and already implemented.

If they are as good as the ones in my Nissan, they are effectively worthless.

Re: Honda bucks industry trend by removing touchscreen controls

#268

Post by vwcx » Tue, Mar 31, 2020, 5:57 PM UTC

est31 wrote: post #262

CivBase wrote: post #162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I work for an avionics manufacturer and I can assure you most of our upcoming comercial systems (and even a healthy portion of government ones) feature touch screen inputs.

In airplanes touchscreens are less of an issue than in cars. In cars you have to have a hand on the wheel 99% of the time, and your gaze on the road. You can't afford interaction with a complicated non-haptic touch screen menu. In airplanes it's different. Here, outside of takeoff and landing, it's OK to look at a screen for 10 seconds while interacting with it with a hand.

Not necessarily. There are many moments during the operation of an aircraft where full attention is paramount. Yes, you see a pilot leaving the cockpit to use the lavatory while the co-pilot is monitoring the autopilot, but the margins are just as small as operating a motor vehicle.

Re: Honda bucks industry trend by removing touchscreen controls

#269

Post by hinkley » Tue, Mar 31, 2020, 5:58 PM UTC

jasondclinton wrote: post #222

hnarn wrote: post #138

Look at the cockpit of any modern airliner and you will see screens, but they are never interactive. There are hardware buttons, dials and lights all over the place. A tactile interface is both more obvious, sturdy and more stable, and therefore safer. The problem that touch interfaces solve, ever since the advent of the first smart phone, is that the interface is now dynamic. You can change it without having to repl…

This comment is off-topic: the article is about physical buttons for non-safety-critical systems. E.g. the article explicitly mentions climate control.

The ergonomics in question here are not about the driver being able to operate controls in a critical situation. They're about operating the controls without causing a critical situation.

If you want, you might think of radio, climate controls, etc as having negative values on the safety axis. You still want to shift them to the right as far as you can.

Re: Honda bucks industry trend by removing touchscreen controls

#270

Post by cosmotic » Tue, Mar 31, 2020, 6:01 PM UTC

hnarn wrote: post #138

Look at the cockpit of any modern airliner and you will see screens, but they are never interactive. There are hardware buttons, dials and lights all over the place. A tactile interface is both more obvious, sturdy and more stable, and therefore safer. The problem that touch interfaces solve, ever since the advent of the first smart phone, is that the interface is now dynamic. You can change it without having to repl…

> The problem that touch interfaces solve, ever since the advent of the first smart phone, is that the interface is now dynamic. You can change it without having to replace the hardware.

They also enable the completion of hardware design before the interface design is completed. While the plastic molds and mechanical designs are worked out, the interface and software development can continue.