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Sonos's “recycle mode” intentionally bricks devices so they can't be reused

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Re: Sonos's “recycle mode” intentionally bricks devices so they can't be reused

#261

Post by ClumsyPilot »

Hackbraten wrote: post #248
zxcb1 wrote: post #196

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes. It is painful to realize that Apple has turned into that. My reference example is a Mac Mini and MacBook Pro which I bought around 2012. Both still work, and are upgraded with dual SSD and 16GB RAM. It is, however, not possible to upgrade or even reinstall the OS. Linux is now the only option, which without they would be useless. With my latest MacBook Pro, I already know that there are no upgrades, the keyboard…

> It is, however, not possible to upgrade or even reinstall the OS. I don’t feel it’s fair to expect a vendor to actively develop major feature upgrades for a seven-year-old computer. What keeps you from downloading and installing macOS High Sierra or Mojave on your 2012 hardware? Both versions still receive security updates, don’t they?

Why not? I can install latest windows 10 or ubuntu on my laptop from 2005.

Re: Sonos's “recycle mode” intentionally bricks devices so they can't be reused

#262

Post by MrStonedOne »

BorisTheBrave wrote: post #11

So, Sonos optionally lets you brick your own device, as part of their Trade Up program that gives a discount on your next device. It's named Recycle mode as, presumably, all the bricked devices are good for is recycling. There doesn't seem to be anything stopping users from selling their speakers on - they just forgo the Trade Up discount. The poster's point that this cuts down on re-use of perfectly good products is…

The key piece you're missing is that there is no trade up part. You get the discount for putting it in recycle mode, but you do not send it to them.

They basically give you discount to brick your old device as a way to kill off the secondary market.

Re: Sonos's “recycle mode” intentionally bricks devices so they can't be reused

#263

Post by matheusmoreira »

crazygringo wrote: post #203

It seems like a lot of commenters here (as well as the tweets) are totally missing the purpose of the recycle mode. If you want to sell, give away, or otherwise let someone else reuse your Sonos, then DON'T PUT IT IN RECYCLE MODE . Easy peasy. Recycle mode exists for when you intentionally want to get a Sonos trade-in credit for recycling your speakers for materials . But because you don't send the speakers directly…

> they have to trust you're actually recycling it instead of keeping it or selling it

Why?

Re: Sonos's “recycle mode” intentionally bricks devices so they can't be reused

#264

Post by thaumasiotes »

MegaDeKay wrote: post #230
crazygringo wrote: post #203

It seems like a lot of commenters here (as well as the tweets) are totally missing the purpose of the recycle mode. If you want to sell, give away, or otherwise let someone else reuse your Sonos, then DON'T PUT IT IN RECYCLE MODE . Easy peasy. Recycle mode exists for when you intentionally want to get a Sonos trade-in credit for recycling your speakers for materials . But because you don't send the speakers directly…

From the thread in that tweet: "To add insult to injury, there are complaints on Sonos' support forums from people who've managed to accidentally put their devices into recycling mode, and been told by Sonos support that there's no way to stop the countdown, forcing them to buy new devices after 21 days." and "From what our eBay guy can tell, the bricking isn't even in hardware; you can't recover it if you're good wi…

> been told by Sonos support that there's no way to stop the countdown, forcing them to buy new devices after 21 days

> you can't recover it if you're good with JTAG, because it's blacklisted as "recycled" on their servers. There's nothing stopping these things from working except Sonos says they can't.

These two points are not compatible with each other. If the only effect of recycle mode is that the device gets blacklisted on a Sonos server, then Sonos is trivially able to undo the effects.

Re: Sonos's “recycle mode” intentionally bricks devices so they can't be reused

#265

Post by ClumsyPilot »

rarecoil wrote: post #93
londons_explore wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I assume Apple and other companies sell the used products to liquidators who refurbish and resell them. Is that not true? For high brand value goods, generally no. Goods are crushed to become unserviceable. It's important to do that to maintain brand image, otherwise floods of not-very-old iPhones end up on ebay for $10, and the image of an iPhone as something that lasts and has resale value is shattered. High end…

> The actual metal and plastic is worth hardly anything, so destroying it isn't a big loss. Even the manufacturing cost is near zero because after launch day of a specific model, the marginal cost to produce one more phone is pretty much zero because production lines are rarely still at capacity. A big loss economically, maybe, but in terms of energy/carbon losses, to say it's more efficient to just crush the thing a…

I am with you on the ethics side, but he is correct, impact is immaterial, and your numbers confirm it the typical impact of a person, a year, is measured in tons of CO2, 90 kg amounts to like a few days of heating or a festive dinner, or filling up your car tank.

However, if they are not recycled and the materials end up in plastic pollution, heavy metal poisoning, or other damage, that's a whole different story.

Re: Sonos's “recycle mode” intentionally bricks devices so they can't be reused

#266

Post by smadge »

song wrote: post #208
crazygringo wrote: post #203

It seems like a lot of commenters here (as well as the tweets) are totally missing the purpose of the recycle mode. If you want to sell, give away, or otherwise let someone else reuse your Sonos, then DON'T PUT IT IN RECYCLE MODE . Easy peasy. Recycle mode exists for when you intentionally want to get a Sonos trade-in credit for recycling your speakers for materials . But because you don't send the speakers directly…

People understand the purpose of it quite well. They just completely disagree with your analysis. First, the most environmental form of recycling is for an object to be reused as is. So, if any item is given to a recycling center, if the recycling center can just sell it directly to someone else, then it's much more environmentally friendly. Second, the credit doesn't encourage people to recycle them at all instead o…

> the most environmental form of recycling is for an object to be reused as is

Just a nit: it’s useful to think of reusing as distinct from recycling. Recycling breaks the object into its raw material.

Re: Sonos's “recycle mode” intentionally bricks devices so they can't be reused

#268

Post by lostlogin »

Al-Khwarizmi wrote: post #76
starsinspace wrote: post #19

So Sonos devices need "activation" via some server on the internet? Why? If I just want to stream audio within my own home, why is internet even necessary? And what happens when Sonos goes out of business and the servers are shut down? I just don't understand why people keep buying such things...

They seem to be one of the few brands that give good audio quality and modern convenience at the same time. For example, I was looking for a device that would (1) be placeable on my living room furniture[1], and let me use a couple of trusty Monitor Audio speakers both (2) for playing music (e.g. from my phone, computer or streaming sources like Spotify) and (3) for TV audio, as those speakers sound much better than…

> Why no one else has made a device that can provide good TV audio and good music playback in a shallow form factor still escapes me. I don't think my requirements were so weird, in freaking 2018.

Am I right in thinking that Sonos fits your requirements? I've found their speakers to be excellent in a small package. I was after the 5s but someone lent me a One as a test. A pair of them are excellent imho.

Re: Sonos's “recycle mode” intentionally bricks devices so they can't be reused

#269

Post by kstenerud »

crazygringo wrote: post #203

It seems like a lot of commenters here (as well as the tweets) are totally missing the purpose of the recycle mode. If you want to sell, give away, or otherwise let someone else reuse your Sonos, then DON'T PUT IT IN RECYCLE MODE . Easy peasy. Recycle mode exists for when you intentionally want to get a Sonos trade-in credit for recycling your speakers for materials . But because you don't send the speakers directly…

How can it be that this is the top voted comment, with such a glaring logic flaw?

There is literally no way for them to verify that you didn't just throw your device in the landfill after enabling recycling mode and pocketing the cash. So this "functionality" does no good at all, other than to recruit the customer into their planned obsolescence program while praising the company for their "green" policy.

And it worked like a charm. Just look at how many people upvoted this comment, signifying their praise of the company for this terrible program!

Re: Sonos's “recycle mode” intentionally bricks devices so they can't be reused

#270

Post by tlb »

jacquesm wrote: post #99
cellularmitosis wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For a physical device (ie featured-locked upon shipping), “support” amounts to paying the server bill, which is likely negligible.

That's the problem right there, for a hardware manufacturer post shipping there shouldn't be a server.

They at least need an update server so they can receive security patches. Once you need that, it's a slippery slope to depending on lots of things in the cloud.
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