If You Can't Buy the Keyboard You Want, Build It Instead • Hacker News Board

Re: If You Can't Buy the Keyboard You Want, Build It Instead

#261

Post by K0SM0S » Mon, Dec 16, 2019, 6:04 AM UTC

anchpop wrote: post #234

K0SM0S wrote: post #204

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Writing Rust in Dvorak on an EZ Ergo for a living is next-level techno-paradise to many a nerd. Kudos for that! Also, if by any chance you feel like sharing details about how, and in which order you made these transitions; things you wish you knew before trying... please don't hesitate :)

I used Colemak (which is similar to Dvorak) and I would really recommend learning it if you don't already touch type. It does involve a little bit of pain at first and you'll feel really tempted to go back but in a week I was already fast enough to do useful work. I'm not a speed demon by any means, I type at the same speed I did before (60 wpm) except now I don't need to look at the keyboard which is very convenient…

Thanks a lot! I've searched a bit based on what you said and sort of found a point of entry into Colemak. It's very enticing. I'm not a touch typist yet (use all fingers but quite inconsistently I suppose, yet 'fast enough' for me and without looking).

Would it be sensible to make such a 'dramatic' layout change at the same time as the switch to a split ortholinear such as the EZ? It seems more straightforward to do it all at once, but also taking quite the tall order at once — ortho + colemak + strict touch typing.

Re: If You Can't Buy the Keyboard You Want, Build It Instead

#262

Post by RBerenguel » Mon, Dec 16, 2019, 6:27 AM UTC

benhurmarcel wrote: post #68

7thaccount wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can any of these be bought? I love mechanical keyboards, but I can only use an ergonomical keyboard

Most recent models can only be found in kits or even parts you need to source. Some people sell assembled keyboards so you can limit yourself to those, but at this point your best bet is to buy a kit or the parts and find someone to assemble it. It's really not difficult to do if you can solder and have a bit of patience, if that's a design with a PCB. Handwiring is more challenging. One model that's easy to find ass…

Note that you can get an assembled Gergo. I did, knowing me a kit would still be inside a box waiting for some “time”.

Re: If You Can't Buy the Keyboard You Want, Build It Instead

#263

Post by gen220 » Mon, Dec 16, 2019, 6:33 AM UTC

ithkuil wrote: post #92

cyphar wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'll be honest, I bought an Ergodox EZ a year or so ago and have consistently struggled to get comfortable using it. I have set up quite a few useful macros for programs I use daily like tmux as well as making it more vim-friendly (after many interations) and yet I still find it a serious chore to get past the fact that the keys feel un-naturally placed. Eventually I just give up and switch back to my laptop keyboard…

I also struggled with the otholinear layout and ended up switching to a http://www.mistelkeyboard.com/md650l-barocco/

I’ve been using the smaller version (no arrow or function keys) for about a year now. It took a little bit of adjusting to get used to no arrow keys, but it’s a great experience now! The `fn` key could perhaps be better placed, but other than that I have no qualms.

I used to get a lot of back pain, which I realize now was from scrunching my shoulders together to keep my wrists in typing position for X hours per day. The fact that it’s a quality mechanical keyboard (the quietest switches, brown I think, are just fine for an office) is an extra bonus. I’d recommend giving it a try for anybody considering it. It’s a good in-between, being an ergonomic keyboard that isn’t particularly “funky”, in terms of layout.

Re: If You Can't Buy the Keyboard You Want, Build It Instead

#264

Post by _pmf_ » Mon, Dec 16, 2019, 6:34 AM UTC

brandonmenc wrote: post #94

ganonm wrote: post #49

Around 2 years ago now, I took the plunge and bought myself an Ergodox EZ split island keyboard. Quite franky, it is the biggest quantum leap in the ergonomic experience of interacting with a computer I have seen since learning Vim. It is comfortable, effortless and fast. If you spend any significant time interacting with computers it is a complete no brainer to invest in optimising the IO channel between your brain…

> it is a complete no brainer to invest in optimising the IO channel between your brain and the machine Why? You'll never even double the "throughput" of that "channel", let alone improve it by an order of magnitude. And I say this as someone who wasted lots of time and money attempting exactly that before I realized that typing is not what I spend most of my time doing while programming.

But L. Ron Hubbard ...

Re: If You Can't Buy the Keyboard You Want, Build It Instead

#265

Post by [deleted] » Mon, Dec 16, 2019, 6:37 AM UTC

stevehawk wrote: post #77

overkalix wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

$300 for the simplest keyboard...

complaining about $300 for a great keyboard is like complaining about a pricey bed. You use it for how many hours of the day if you're a programmer/engineer? Maybe it's worth spoiling yourself.

[deleted]

Re: If You Can't Buy the Keyboard You Want, Build It Instead

#266

Post by BiteCode_dev » Mon, Dec 16, 2019, 6:59 AM UTC

steve19 wrote: post #123

BiteCode_dev wrote: post #112

My problem with such keyboard is that it assumes: - you will mostly work on the same place (or you accept the burden of traveling with your keyboard and be "that guy" when you set it up. Personally for the same hurdle, I prefer a secondary screen on the go) - you will mostly work on the same machine (or you have multiple keyboards, one for each machine, and if you are in a data center or tech support, you move with y…

> - you can afford the lower productivity (e.g: you are not a freelancer that needs a regular output) Why lower productivity? The person who created it thinks it will lower RSI therefor increase productivity.

My experience from switching keyboards or layout is that there is a initial cost in productivity: you type way more slowly and it's harder to think, for a few days up to a few months depending of the importance of the change.

Re: If You Can't Buy the Keyboard You Want, Build It Instead

#267

Post by BiteCode_dev » Mon, Dec 16, 2019, 7:00 AM UTC

username90 wrote: post #136

steve19 wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> - you can afford the lower productivity (e.g: you are not a freelancer that needs a regular output) Why lower productivity? The person who created it thinks it will lower RSI therefor increase productivity.

Is RSI even that normal? I have never heard anyone talk about it in real life, only in these threads does it seem like everyone has it.

I had it from mouses but never from keyboard. My guess is that it's very dependant on your general health.

Re: If You Can't Buy the Keyboard You Want, Build It Instead

#268

Post by BiteCode_dev » Mon, Dec 16, 2019, 7:04 AM UTC

baroffoos wrote: post #256

BiteCode_dev wrote: post #112

My problem with such keyboard is that it assumes: - you will mostly work on the same place (or you accept the burden of traveling with your keyboard and be "that guy" when you set it up. Personally for the same hurdle, I prefer a secondary screen on the go) - you will mostly work on the same machine (or you have multiple keyboards, one for each machine, and if you are in a data center or tech support, you move with y…

Thats a long list of requirements and yet none of them apply to me as well as the other people I work with. As a software developer I always use the same computer and I have never needed to type on someone else's computer

So you don't share your computer with kids or the spouse (you have money or no spouse/kids), don't teach, don't do much on site user support, don't visit much clients, don't travel for pleasure or family much, don't use much virtual keyboards, are not at a university, etc.

It's not a good or a bad thing, but it would be a mistake to generalize it.

Re: If You Can't Buy the Keyboard You Want, Build It Instead

#269

Post by kstenerud » Mon, Dec 16, 2019, 7:13 AM UTC

memn0nis wrote: post #221

Are mechanical keyboards that much "better" (I know this is subjective) than normal laptop keyboards (I have a macbook pro). I'm considering buying one but they are quite expensive...

The only way to know is to try one for yourself.

I've used many different keyboards over the past 35 years, and I honestly can't say that I prefer one style over the other (except for those ultrathin mbp keyboards they finally ditched - they just sucked). For me, the only thing I care about is how noisy it is.

And this brings us to the only part that really matters with keyboards: office courtesy. If your keyboard is noisy, that's not cool. We had someone in the office with one of those clickity-clack keyboards of old, until enough people complained and he switched to a normal keyboard.

If your keyboard is radically different, or you do something inane like removing the keycap symbols, nobody can collaborate with you on your machine. And now you're "that guy".

There comes a point where you start behaving like audiophiles who swear up and down that their gold-plated $800 ethernet cable to their stereo improves the quality of the sound. And that's fine, as long as you do it at home.

Re: If You Can't Buy the Keyboard You Want, Build It Instead

#270

Post by tomc1985 » Mon, Dec 16, 2019, 7:15 AM UTC

terranoct wrote: post #185

ganonm wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not just about improving the bandwidth (although that is nice), the one thing I wouldn't trade that the Ergodox gives me is a very low error rate in typing. This is hard to achieve with a traditional keyboard, especially when you starting throwing special characters into the mix that require two-handed contortions. I've heard the refrain "you don't spend most of your time typing when programming" so many times i…

It's not the bandwidth per se, so much it's the continuous attention cost spent on keeping that bandwidth going. Better tactile feedback and more reliable input means I don't have to constantly multitask half a task worth of attention onto making sure the input I think I'm doing went off as intended, which makes it easier to concentrate on the main task, which reduces the build up of fatigue, which reduces the rate a…

By my read y'all need more practice typing, not a fancy expensive ergo keyboard. Other than the occasional hand cramps this lifelong nerd doesn't have any of those problems on this old, mushy MS natural.