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Uber loses licence to operate in London, will still operate while appealing

bbc.com

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Re: Uber loses licence to operate in London, will still operate while appealing

#261

Post by Jommi »

tompccs wrote: post #90

A few things going on here. This is a continuation of an ongoing battle between Tfl and Uber. Last year Tfl threatened to revoke Ubers' license unless it complied with regulations involving basic safety checks and coorporated with British Transport Police over crimes committed by drivers. Well, one year on and Uber has not been able to get its house in order. This move will doubtless be extremely unpopular with Londo…

I think you're overvaluing Uber's footing in the current London market. During the summer several competitors have been granted licenses, and they are reporting healthy and fast growth. Those millions of people can just switch over to one of the other apps and get a nearly identical (and usually cheaper) service. Same with the drivers, the competitors are offering a hugely better deal than Uber is.

Re: Uber loses licence to operate in London, will still operate while appealing

#262

Post by Jommi »

yaa_minu wrote: post #180
lidHanteyk wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

No, let's look at it from a more philosophically objective point of view. Why do you think that the millions of Londoners who voluntarily chose Uber over traditional taxi services should be denied the freedom to choose what taxi services to use?

If tfl sees Uber not operating by the same standards as others do, then of course they should be punished. Londoners are ofcourse free to use any other other app based ridehailing companies that so comply with tfls regulations.

Re: Uber loses licence to operate in London, will still operate while appealing

#263

Post by Crashbat »

ApolloFortyNine wrote: post #237
thinkindie wrote: post #217

have you ever wondered what makes services like Uber affordable? 1) underpaid drivers 2) VC money dropped into an otherwise unsustainable business I'm pretty sure Uber will raise prices the moment it kills the competition

> underpaid drivers This is and always will be a matter of opinion. Uber is not putting a gun to anyone's head. If it's not profitable for you to drive, you don't have to.

Except then you can't eat? It's not that it's not profitable, it's that the earnings drivers make are meager compared to what people need to sustain themselves. You make it sound like anybody who's on minimum wage just doesn't realise that they could go elsewhere for higher wages!

Re: Uber loses licence to operate in London, will still operate while appealing

#264

Post by Jommi »

nottorp wrote: post #112
Normal_gaussian wrote: post #57

I'd be very happy to see uber kicked out of London long enough for a competitor to take hold. I simply do not trust the company. I accept that the market pressure uber has brought has improved transportation. I do not accept that uber and its repeated atrocious behaviors required for this. Its a shame that uber can so easily bypass tfl with appeals and minor changes.

If uber gets kicked out, the rest of its modern competitors will follow (Uber is big enough to litigate succesfully, but not all are), and you'll be back to the black cabs. 90% of the time, uber is being kicked not because of any concern for safety, but because of traditional taxi company lobbying. Source: personal experience in 2 cities.

This is actually completely wrong. TFL in the summer granted several licenses for Uber competitors which have now been growing fast inside the city. It's definitely not a take against ridehailing, just against Uber.

Re: Uber loses licence to operate in London, will still operate while appealing

#265

Post by gjulianm »

UK-Al05 wrote: post #219
gjulianm wrote: post #193

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They seem very happy indeed. So happy they have recently striked over pay and conditions [1]. A MIT study also showed the big profits they have (26% make more than minimum wage in the US!) [2]. >Your imposing your own morals on people who don't want your morals. You are wrong. It is not morals. It is the law. Uber is bypassing laws, full stop. 1: https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2019/may/08/uber-driv... 2: http…

According to a government report[1] 68% of workers are satisfied working for ride-sharing services. Which admittingly isn't super high, but not awful either. But the most important thing like is the independence it gives. 1] https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/... The laws are created by a minority of people who don't always vote in favour of the public. You regulate it like a normal job, and…

They like the independence it gives? Only 52% are satisfied with it according to the same report.

By the way, the report shows in appendix table 7 that only 23% of the sample reported more than 50% income from the gig economy. Don't you find it weird?

> The laws are created by a minority of people who don't always vote in favour of the public.

And Uber has the interest of the public in mind, right?

> You regulate it like a normal job, and the thing they like about it most will be removed.

Hiring someone as a freelancer to do a regular job (that is, a job where Uber decides fares, conditions and tools for the job and the worker mainly does what it's told) is fraud. And I'm not the one saying this, the courts are saying it in the UK [1] and other countries are following suit.

1: https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2018/dec/19/uber-lose...

Re: Uber loses licence to operate in London, will still operate while appealing

#266

Post by [deleted] »

eggy wrote: post #247

If the concern over rider safety was that somebody could pose as an Uber driver and update a photo to make it work, why are black cabs not also deemed unsafe? Couldn't somebody borrow a friend's black cab, slap on a fake photo, and work the city? Maybe a stretch, and more work, but the same concern is there, no? I guess the black cabs have some powerful lobbyists in parliment? Yellow taxis in NYC were a monopoly, and…

[deleted]

Re: Uber loses licence to operate in London, will still operate while appealing

#267

Post by BurningFrog »

gorgoiler wrote: post #240

After living for years in London, it’s hard to compare Ubers with black cabs. In the centre of town during the day black cabs are often ubiquitous, immediately available, and skilled at getting you the hell out of dodge. Something for which I’m happy to pay a premium. Anywhere else they can be capricious and scarce. After 11pm this is the case with in fact almost all black cabs anywhere in the city, when a very diffe…

Takeaway: Maybe London should spend some effort becoming more naviagatable, instead of demanding professional drivers acquire a PhD level education (the Knowledge) to find their way.

Re: Uber loses licence to operate in London, will still operate while appealing

#268

Post by jacobush »

folkrav wrote: post #248
BWGB wrote: post #236

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agreed. Black cabbies have had it good for such a long time, cash in hand, monopolising the taxi business in London . I got in a cab booked using a taxi version app and the driver complained about paying % fee to the app and only getting paid once a month. Welcome to the rest of the world where people pay taxes and only get paid at the end of every month.

> Welcome to the rest of the world where people [...] only get paid at the end of every month. Wait, what? You get paid once a month? Is this a UK thing? Every single job I've had over here (Canada) was either once every two weeks, or two times a month.

In Sweden, and I think in most of EU, once a month is the standard. I know of no-one with in Sweden with a full time job which is once a month.

Re: Uber loses licence to operate in London, will still operate while appealing

#269

Post by lavezzi »

Joe8Bit wrote: post #259
thathndude wrote: post #200

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yep. I'm always amazed at how quickly people crap on Uber. In hindsight it's not a particularly revolutionary service. But does everyone remember how much the Taxi system sucked?

London has had 10,000's of mini-cabs for decades that served a big chunk of this non-Black cab market. They weren't perfect but they were cheap, pretty ubiquitous and served most (if not all) of the spaces left in the market by black cabs. So Uber as a service hasn't been that revolutionary in London, the things they HAVE done is improve the ordering UX and making CC's ubiquitous.

nm

Re: Uber loses licence to operate in London, will still operate while appealing

#270

Post by BurningFrog »

Crashbat wrote: post #263
ApolloFortyNine wrote: post #237

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> underpaid drivers This is and always will be a matter of opinion. Uber is not putting a gun to anyone's head. If it's not profitable for you to drive, you don't have to.

Except then you can't eat? It's not that it's not profitable, it's that the earnings drivers make are meager compared to what people need to sustain themselves. You make it sound like anybody who's on minimum wage just doesn't realise that they could go elsewhere for higher wages!

Always fascinated by the idea that paying someone $8/h is a crime, but paying them $0/h is perfectly fine.

Such enormous cognitive dissonance. We humans are so good at that.

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