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Starship Prototype Unveiled

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Re: Starship Prototype Unveiled

#261
post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Perhaps, but several orders of magnitude less bad than health and ecological problems from sunlight.

How can you get more power from an orders of magnitude less powerful beam than from an orders of magnitude more powerful beam (sunlight) over an equal surface area? And if you can’t, why do it? This blows my mind.

Disclaimer: I do not know the specifics, but I guess neither do you. The gist of it is probably that more energy gets transmitted per surface unit, but in a way that's less dangerous than sunlight.

Firstly, you have 24/365 production, always at peak power. All things equal, you need a lot less capacity for equivalent power generation.

Then, I am fairly certain that the amount of power that can be collected depends a lot on antenna size, just like standard wireless transmission: the antenna needs to be "tuned". And a few hundred meters of steel cable would likely absorb a lot more energy than an 80 L water bag.

And finally (but related), microwaves are likely a lot less dangerous than UV: it isn't ionizing, because individual photons cary a lot less energy. That also means that they penetrate more "cooking" (increasing temperature) more deeply the objects in its path. Instead of getting your skin burnt from the energy, you feel slightly warmed up (and would likely be able to dissipate the small extra heat in the atmosphere). A sizeable portion of this energy would likely end up in the ground, if no antenna is present to collect it.

This technology is interesting, as it offers a lot of new possibilities: it's easy to relocate, for instance. We might also be able to split the beam to power multiple places simultaneously, reducing grid losses (and load balancing at the satellite).

Re: Starship Prototype Unveiled

#262
post #249
post #246

What I loved the most was the optimistic outlook, the forward looking focus and the implicit belief that any problem will be solved and we'll advance. This is exceedingly rare in a pessimistic world drowning in the voice of Luddites and backwards-looking preservationists. Like always, technology solving real world problems versus politicians (professional or amateurs) creating (and never really solving) self-serving…

I suspect that having a sense of urgency and limited resources contributed to this phenomenal pace of development, it's in stark contrast to the glacial pace of the SLS project (Boeing/Nasa) which is much better funded.

As someone else aptly remarked - NASA is no longer a space exploration agency. It's now an employment agency. Hence the glacial pace.

Re: Starship Prototype Unveiled

#264
post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It will reduce the length of the welds (for the hull) quite a bit. The number of rings is roughly 35 for Starship, with about ten vertical seams each. For easier thinking, line the vertical seams up and you see that this gives 50m length per vertical seam from bottom to top of Starship. So there are a total of 500m for that. 35 rings with ~28m circumference add up to about 1km of seams between them. Now if they can u…

>Raptor production is the real bottleneck, though. They are shooting for one per day, no? Based on the differences identified in the three hanging under the Boca Chica vehicle now, it’s still in development.

He said that it's about one per week. One per day will be in several months.

Re: Starship Prototype Unveiled

#265

380s for ISP for the Raptor vacuum engine seems durn good, considering the tradeoffs between hydrogen and methane. The most efficient engines we've flown, the RL-10 [0] (used on the Delta IV and Atlas rockets as part of the Centaur Upper Stage) and the RS-25 [1], (the Space Shuttle Main Engine) get around 450-460s for their specific impulse. These engines use liquid hydrogen and liquid oxygen. The issue with liquid h…

Musk thinks like a software engineer. Create simple, reusable, components that can scale efficiently. I’m taking some liberties in saying this, but the gist remains the same. Musk keeps it simple and focused.

Musk does not design the rockets.

Re: Starship Prototype Unveiled

#266

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From the sounds of it steel structure can basically handle much greater temperatures routinely and also even more in rare situations that might mean retiring the ship afterward but not losing everything. In his presentation Elon says that aluminum alloy or carbon fiber structure is basically done for at 300 to 400 Celsius, well that's the temperature at which stainless steel can just begin to get conditioned by heat,…

What do you mean by Handle? Steel won't melt at 300-400 Celsius but "handling" those temperatures for 10 minutes will change the properties of the material, possibly by a lot, so you don't need "melting" for structural collapse (Twin Towers style). As the GP says, if you put cold rolled steel, which has an elastic yield strength of >1500 MPa, at 300-400 Celsius, then it is only a matter of time (30-120 min) till the…

Re-entry will take something on the order of 10m or less. Even the space shuttle only took 30 minutes while flying like a plane. There will be no circumstances where the ship is going to be subjected to that amount of heat for 30-120 minutes.

> or the steel isn't reaching temperatures over 250 Celsius

That might be the case. The space shuttle had an aluminum structure that would fail at 175C, and now we have 40 years of technology advancements for the heat shield.

Re: Starship Prototype Unveiled

#267

I suspect that Starship will fly to space before SLS ever will. I also think Starship has a significantly higher chance of flying at all than SLS.

Starship could have Falcon Heavy level of delays (which I think it will) and still beat SLS.

Starship looks stupid simple compared to the FH.

Re: Starship Prototype Unveiled

#268
post #92

I am so amazed by the genius of making it out of steel. It's just so completely counter intuitive but has accelerated their progress so much. If they told you the stats of the material, better strength at cryo tempertures meaning mass reduction, higher melting point meaning minimal heat shielding and great thermal conductivity it would be easy to imagine it was some new super composite. Then your head explodes when t…

I know there are 1000 of them 100x smarter than me at all of this, but I have my doubts that the specs for "cold rolled" stainless will hold up after tens of re-entries, as it is effectively being tempered over and over.

Surely that is something that could be easily tested in a lab.

Re: Starship Prototype Unveiled

#269

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I imagine all the necessary hands are already on deck for Crew Dragon. Starship wasn’t built by the Falcon or Crew Dragon manufacturing teams, and the vast majority of the design and engineering currently happening for Starship has long been completed for Crew Dragon. Let’s also remember that NASA is hardly the only company that pays SpaceX, they have other income sources and what they do with that income is ultimate…

From this[1] article: "Musk said in 2018 that SpaceX was “all hands on deck for Crew Dragon,” and it would be making trips to the ISS by December 2018. After that, he said, “most of our engineering resources will be dedicated to BFR, and I think that will make things go quite quickly,” he said. BFR was the earlier name for Starship." "All hands on deck" is not some subjective term, it is naval and means get everyone…

He said, today, that 5% of SpaceX was working on Starship.

Re: Starship Prototype Unveiled

#270
post #262
post #249

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I suspect that having a sense of urgency and limited resources contributed to this phenomenal pace of development, it's in stark contrast to the glacial pace of the SLS project (Boeing/Nasa) which is much better funded.

As someone else aptly remarked - NASA is no longer a space exploration agency. It's now an employment agency. Hence the glacial pace.

NASA was never a space exploration agency; in its heyday, it was a combination thinly veiled demonstration of military capacity and thinly veiled military projects agency, but most of both of those functions were superfluous by the last decade or so of the Cold War.
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