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Thomas Cook collapses, stranding 150k UK holidaymakers

theguardian.com

261–270 of 285 posts

Re: Thomas Cook collapses, stranding 150k UK holidaymakers

#261
post #171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I suspect that this might be a varies-by-country thing, certainly in the UK 30 days is the norm, 90 days would be a bit odd. But I think Italy are mostly 90 days (apparently due to that being Fiat's terms, and everyone else followed suit).

No, it depends on the sector. Big supermarkets, for example, pay later, as do a lot of businesses where actual turnaround of goods is involved; but service companies typically have a more flexible cashflow and can easily do 30 days. In Italy the situation was so bad that it was not uncommon to get 180 days from big accounts. The State set an awful example by allowing 12 months on its own bills, and often wouldn't pay…

Thank the EU. https://ec.europa.eu/growth/smes/support/late-payment_en:

”Main provisions of the Directive

Public authorities have to pay for the goods and services that they procure within 30 days or, in very exceptional circumstances, within 60 days.

Enterprises have to pay their invoices within 60 days, unless they expressly agree otherwise and provided it is not grossly unfair.

Automatic entitlement to interest for late payment and €40 minimum as compensation for recovery costs.

Statutory interest of at least 8% above the European Central Bank’s reference rate.

EU countries may continue maintaining or bringing into force laws and regulations which are more favourable to the creditor than the provisions of the Directive.”

Re: Thomas Cook collapses, stranding 150k UK holidaymakers

#262

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The Guardian article mentions that hotels have to wait up to 3 months to be paid by the holiday company. Ninety day terms are very common in most B2B industries. Large companies quickly learn that their suppliers are dependant on them to stay in business and can be abused almost at will. So nominally "90 day" terms claiming you have 90 days to pay become "We definitely won't pay until 90 days after you bill us" and…

> The EU says if in practice you don't pay on or before 90 days you owe interest at a calculated rate on the due amount. Interesting. Do you have a source for this?

https://ec.europa.eu/growth/smes/support/late-payment_en

Re: Thomas Cook collapses, stranding 150k UK holidaymakers

#263

> Customers at a hotel in Tunisia reported being locked in by security guards as the hotel demanded extra money, fearing it would not be paid by Thomas Cook. This is quite bad behaviour from the hotel. Presumably their business relationship is with Thomas Cook, not the people on holidays? They went as far as grabbing people who jumped a wall in an attempt to get out! More details here: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-4…

That’s hostage - taking, no?

Could also be citizen’s arrest, but there a risk a judge will call it that, yes.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Citizen%27s_arrest#Legal_and_p...:

”A person who makes a citizen's arrest could risk exposing him or herself to possible lawsuits or criminal charges – such as charges of false imprisonment, unlawful restraint, kidnapping, or wrongful arrest – if the wrong person is apprehended or a suspect's civil rights are violated.[4] This is especially true when police forces are attempting to determine who an aggressor is. Private citizens do not enjoy the same immunity from civil liability when making arrests on other private citizens as do police officers.“

Re: Thomas Cook collapses, stranding 150k UK holidaymakers

#264

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In German law, if you add a link to another site somewhere on your own site, you take responsibility for the content on the site you link you. You are required to check for that or face liability. This the result of years of court cases around this matter. And courts don't usually understand much about the web, let alone tech in general. So while involving lawyers every time is definitely high on the CYA scale, it ma…

Has ever happened and does this also cover newspapers?

Yes, I remember a high profile German tech news site involved in at least one such legal battle. If memory serves, it revolved around a link to Alcohol 120%, a tool to rip copy protected disks. The news site lost the case, I think.

Re: Thomas Cook collapses, stranding 150k UK holidaymakers

#265
How come a company that is trusted by half a million travelers (at the end of a holiday season) can this easily go bankrupt?.. Is this a case of bad management or cheap travel models or what..

cant see any details on when they started seeing issues, and how did they end up like this..

edit: here is how -- Thomas Cook returned to private ownership in 1972 and has seen a series of mergers and takeovers. In 2007, it merged with the UK-listed owner of Airtours, MyTravel Group, which nearly collapsed in 2011 but was bailed out by its banks. The rescue left Thomas Cook with a debt burden of £1.7bn and the company struggled to cope, leaving administration as the only option.

Re: Thomas Cook collapses, stranding 150k UK holidaymakers

#266
post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But what happens if they declare bankruptcy on you way back ? Buy your plane tickets with a credit card, ask your credit company for the money back, buy another ticket. This is one of the main advantages of using a credit card: the credit company will absorb the debts of the third party (the airline, in this example).

Sure, and hope that you aren't on a strict budget and the return flight doesn't cost a lot more. Oh, and that the credit comes in a timely manner and you aren't waiting until monday/tuesday because friday evening isn't a business day.

Don't travel 6,000 miles on a strict budget, and definitely not on an airline in an iffy financial position.

Re: Thomas Cook collapses, stranding 150k UK holidaymakers

#267

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ah, nuts! I had no idea Norwegian was struggling. I have a long-haul flight booked with them for Christmas :(

I think they had problems due to 737-max being grounded.

They were having problems before that, but the 737-max exasperated them. They even used a 787 to fill in some gaps, but that's absurd.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/michaelgoldstein/2019/03/14/nor...

Re: Thomas Cook collapses, stranding 150k UK holidaymakers

#268
post #65

I was recently debating booking a flight to Europe on Norwegian. It didn't affect my decision, but I'm very aware that they're struggling financially, so I'd only buy the tickets less than a month out on a credit card so it's the bank's money, and if they declared bankruptcy and cancelled flights, c'est la vie.

But what happens if they declare bankruptcy on you way back ? and what about hotel reservations or the more expensive flight you'll have to take ? BTW Norwegian are fine for a while https://simpleflying.com/norwegian-bond-payments-deferrednor...

> But what happens if they declare bankruptcy on you way back

That falls under c'est la vie. I gambled, I lost, suck it up, book BA (looks like the strike's over), Lufthansa, SAS, etc.

Re: Thomas Cook collapses, stranding 150k UK holidaymakers

#269
post #205

> Customers at a hotel in Tunisia reported being locked in by security guards as the hotel demanded extra money, fearing it would not be paid by Thomas Cook. This is quite bad behaviour from the hotel. Presumably their business relationship is with Thomas Cook, not the people on holidays? They went as far as grabbing people who jumped a wall in an attempt to get out! More details here: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-4…

It's between a hotel and Thomas Cook's problem. Thomas Cook book the hotel. Hotel promised to allocate a room for Thomas Cook. Thomas Cook will pay the hotel fee. Hotel receive the fee from Thomas Cook. The customer who actually use the hotel owes nothing from the hotel. The same goes for Airlines. It's a textbook example really.

Except Thomas Cook is out of business and you need a place to sleep or a way to get home. Whatever the legal niceties that may be resolved or not over the next few years, sort of makes it your problem.

Re: Thomas Cook collapses, stranding 150k UK holidaymakers

#270

Does this mean Condor Airlines is shutting down as well? Their website[1] says they're continuing to fly, but I'm wondering if there any sort of precedent for what happens to child companies when the parent becomes insolvent. Having just returned just last week from Europe via Condor Airlines, I'm glad I don't have to worry about this mess. [1]: https://www.condor.com/us

I hope not - only direct flight from Portland to Germany and very cheap (but crappy)
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